Shadowrun Digital Tools Box, Errata'd or rehashed? Options

[Vlagrate]

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/1257...gital-Tools-Box
Does anyone know if any of the compiled errata has been applied to the QSR or Rules of the Street?
I'm all for documents that are easier to parse, but if they're still bugged/incomplete, I'd rather wait for official errata for the main book.

[tasti man LH]

Well, it'd be kind of a dick move to put the first official bit of errata in the box sets, especially since you got to pay money for it.

[Bigity]

I was thinking it would be a dick move to release it without errata.

[Vlagrate]

They wouldn't have to release it with the errata of the whole book, just the pieces that are in the box.

[Grak]

I'm confused by these products and going digital has only made it worse.

20 bucks for this set compared to the $20 core-book strikes me as bad product placement.
Actually looking into the features we have, Pregenned characters, how to gm, Sixth World intro and the rules?
I might be wrong but isn't all of that available from the core-book?

Hell, if it's about new players how does this compete with the FREE quick start rules?

What's that leave us? A character booklet of dubious utility, some maps and cards. Is the value in the maps and cards? Probably not, as a digital package the cards lack the usefulness provided by their physical counterparts. The maps might be the saving grace but not for $20

So I ask, Who is this for?

[tasti man LH]

I'm confused by these products and going digital has only made it worse.

20 bucks for this set compared to the $20 core-book strikes me as bad product placement.
Actually looking into the features we have, Pregenned characters, how to gm, Sixth World intro and the rules?
I might be wrong but isn't all of that available from the core-book?

Hell, if it's about new players how does this compete with the FREE quick start rules?

What's that leave us? A character booklet of dubious utility, some maps and cards. Is the value in the maps and cards? Probably not, as a digital package the cards lack the usefulness provided by their physical counterparts. The maps might be the saving grace but not for $20

So I ask, Who is this for?

For starters, it's two box sets for the price of one. The physical copies, one worth $20 and the other worth $60, would come together to be $80.

And actually...the core book doesn't really have a section that maps out the timeline

The point for this kind of thing is that it's supposed to ease in players new to SR without having to dump all of your money into just the core book, which on it's own isn't really optimized for beginning players. As for comparing this to the QSR, in terms of extra goodies that you can play with. In other words, it's supposed to be the middle ground between the QSR on it's own, and the actual rulebook.

Of course, if you already feel fairly confident in your ability to teach SR to new players with just the core book or the QSR, there's no need for you to get it.

...out of curiosity, have you used any Beginner's Boxes from other existing TRPGs?

[Grak]

Yeah I've used the 4th ed D&D set, which was pretty slick in terms of the amount of tokens but the books in it fell completely flat.

I can't believe they ripped out the history section from 5th Ed. That was my favourite part of 4AE, man that's seriously disheartening. I went straight to the crunch this time round while I relearn the game. The stories and history were being saved for the end (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Physical assets tend to be more expensive. It's not the point, I get that having it on the shelf in the real world will be cool. Good for the parents looking for a cheap gift, oh ill grab johnny that! The physical one will also have dice, which will add to the cool factor and make me pick up the newbie kit but that $80 dollar one is a damn hard sell.

Truths be told at this point the physical items don't even matter. The current product is digital and it makes you choose between core-book and itself at the same price. The digital market isn't little johnny's parents, it's us, you, me, dumpshockers and RPG geeks en mass that makes it a very strange proposition.

From my side of things I am really hankering for that Runners Toolkit they had in 4th. Cheat sheets for the newbies but with reference books to all the gear from the Core Set, not to mention a gm screen. These new products seem like a weak version of that.

[tasti man LH]

Anyways, still reading through everything right now. First thing of note is the reveal of a new upcoming release: a Seattle Boxed Set. Am I correct to assume that this is supposed to be in the same vein as the old Denver Boxed Set?

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Truths be told at this point the physical items don't even matter. The current product is digital and it makes you choose between core-book and itself at the same price. The digital market isn't little johnny's parents, it's us, you, me, dumpshockers and RPG geeks en mass that makes it a very strange proposition.

From my side of things I am really hankering for that Runners Toolkit they had in 4th. Cheat sheets for the newbies but with reference books to all the gear from the Core Set, not to mention a gm screen. These new products seem like a weak version of that.

...wait...you know kids that play Shadowrun? D&D and Pathfinder I can understand younger players getting into, but bleak dystopic Shadowrun? I don't think so...

I personally found the cheat sheets to be kind of useless. At the very least, my players never used them and some of the tests they outlines were straightforward enough to not need to consult them. Plus, the most damning was how there was no hack/decking cheat sheet, which makes all the convoluted mess of the SR4 Matrix rules even more stupid.

And, well, the other advanced rulebooks aren't even out yet so making the Runner's Toolkit from SR4 for SR5 isn't even viable yet.

Plus, if it makes you feel any better, there is a "Betaware" Toolkit being planned that IS supposed to be the SR5 version of the other Toolkit.

[Grak]

Seattle box set. Sign. Me. Up. Right now. Please.

I seriously love the Denver box set and still use bits and pieces of it. My players were given the expired border passes from a dodgy contact that was trying to get rid of em. Boy did that lead to some fun.

You'd be surprised who actually plays these games.

I can see why not everyone would want em but for my group those cheat sheets are indispensable. One of my runners doesn't know how to breath without guidance, we've been playing for a year or so now and he just figured out the burst rules. (before you ask. Yes, He is a Sammy.)

God I can't wait for the other books in the core-set. Anyone know if we are getting them anytime soon?

[tasti man LH]

That said, the pitch for that set:

SEATTLE BOX SET
As beautiful as she is dysfunctional, Seattle is urban sprawl amid wonders set next door to disasters. Whether
you’re a native or not, Seattle will draw you in like no other. The Seattle Box Set presents this quintessential city
like never before. Booklets will cover Seattle locales, the essential history, politics and current events, along
with Seattle-specific adventures, that will have runners moving in the shadows for years to come.

Also, titles revealed for some of the upcoming novels:

"Fire and Frost"
"Hell on Water"
"Dark Resonance"

And no, no plot synopses or mentions of who the authors will be for those work. All are being priced at $14.95. No idea if that's the price for a print release or a e-pub release.

And a mention that omnibuses of the older SR novels are in the works as well.

[hermit]

Who wrote Fire and Frost?

[naga-nuyen]

Novels:

Fire and frost by John Helfers

Hell on water by JH (line developer)

Dark Resonance by Phaedra Wildon

From looking at the net (where I found the names) these where set back in 2010ish time frame. Wonder what the 4yr delay was about?

If these are the same titles, I am super happy for the writers to finally see there work getting to the public.

[Sendaz]

From looking at the net (where I found the names) these where set back in 2010ish time frame. Wonder what the 4yr delay was about?

The budget only allowed for one typewriter for the lot, so they all had to take turns typing up chapters. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[hermit]

Dark Resonance by Phaedra Wildon

Oh dear, I do hope that thing stays buried.

Hm, 1 out of 3 could be good. There go my high hopes that Goodman or Zimmerman would get a novel contract.

[Sengir]

BEGINNER BOX

The Shadowrun Beginner Box is the easiest way to dive into the intrigue, grit and action of one of the most enduring role-playing settings of all time! Tailor-designed for an easy-on-the-credstick entry
...
RUNNER'S TOOLKIT: ALPHAWARE
...to use in conjunction with Shadowrun, Fifth Edition, or to be the perfect stepping-stone between the Shadowrun Beginner Box and the core rulebook

Oh dear, another game designer "inventing" the idea of segmenting the product line into experience levels through which new players are supposed progress. Hint to GCL: A lot of games, made by publishers with far larger marketing budgets, have tried the very same concept, and they all failed.
A dumbed-down entry tier that cannot be used in conjunction with the more advanced tiers does not make people more eager to pick up the game, it just makes them more angry about sinking money into something they cannot use after a few sessions. An "Advanced" as stepping stone and companion to the "Expert" tier leads to completely inconsequential usage of these labels at best, more likely it actively hampers the product line because "X is supposed to be an advanced-tier product, we can't use those great ideas there".

But at least we now know where the history chapter from the BBB went -- you can buy it for just 19.99 (less that 1$ per page!), and get some handouts left over from the last con on top of it...

[hermit]

Not to mention the free-for-download quickstart rules. But hey, they might contain the Errata CGL is keeping secret from all other customers.

[lokii]

But at least we now know where the history chapter from the BBB went -- you can buy it for just 19.99 (less that 1$ per page!), and get some handouts left over from the last con on top of it...

As far as one can tell from the Digital Tools Box there is no history chapter included in the Beginner Box Set according to this (sorry German): http://www.foren.pegasus.de/foren/topic/21...owrunboxen-wtf/

[Sengir]

As far as one can tell from the Digital Tools Box there is no history chapter included in the Beginner Box Set according to this (sorry German): http://www.foren.pegasus.de/foren/topic/21...owrunboxen-wtf/

The way I understand that posting, he just read the description of the contents (interpreting "gives the flavor and background of the Sixth World" as something else than a history chapter, which certainly could be the case) and decided not to buy the set

[AccessControl]

I picked this up, and while I haven't had time to go over it comprehensively, it does appear that the GM screen in the Alphaware set does have at least a few updated tables, since I noticed that the Defense Modifiers table was missing one or two of the useless lines that didn't make sense that were in the CRB. So, it's definitely possible that some other modifications have been snuck in.

[lokii]

The way I understand that posting, he just read the description of the contents (interpreting "gives the flavor and background of the Sixth World" as something else than a history chapter, which certainly could be the case) and decided not to buy the set

No, Synapscape downloaded the Digital Tools Box ("Habe sie mir gerade heruntergeladen und gedacht WTF???") and it seems "The Edge of Now" is an excerpt from the core rulebook.

[Sengir]

No, Synapscape downloaded the Digital Tools Box ("Habe sie mir gerade heruntergeladen und gedacht WTF???") and it seems "The Edge of Now" is an excerpt from the core rulebook.

I understood "die Inhalte" as the list of contents, not the contents themselves. But looking a bit further down on his comments about the maps (copied from Sprawl Sites) and the gear cards (too pixelated to be useful), he obviously does have the product and it sucks...

[hermit]

Here's hoping Pegasus makes good on their promises to just release their own box, improved and unrelated to this money-grabbing scheme.

[Beaumis]

Here's a quick translation of the previously linked post on the german forums. I left the original statements and added my translation in the line below.
The original poster quotes the advertisement text and then comments on each bulletin.

Habe sie mir gerade heruntergeladen und gedacht WTF???
- I just downloaded it and thought WTF?

The Edge of Now gives the flavor and background of the Sixth World
Das ist einfach nur der Text über das Leben in der sechsten Welt aus dem GRW.
- This is simply the text about living in the sixth world from the CRB.

Quick-Start Rules: Fast rules and a quick adventure to whet your appetite for more.
Das gab es im Vorfeld schon gratis zum Download oder als Booklet.
- These were available previously as either booklet or download for free.

A pre-generated character booklet: Allows for a gamemaster and one person to run a solo adventure.
EIN einziger Charakter, kaum Inhalt, kein Solo-Abenteuer im Sinne eines Abenteuerspielbuches oder so.
- One single character, no content, no solo adventure like an adventure book or such.

5 pre-generated character sheets: Details that’ll allow up to five players to play with the help of a gamemaster.
Wow, wer braucht die?
- Wow, who needs those?

Rules of the Street: An 88-page rulebook designed to be accessible and simple to use.
Genau so layouted wie die Regeln im Buch. Was genau soll daran einfacher in der Anwendung sein? Es sind immer noch 88 Seiten Regeln!
- The same layout as the rules in the CRB. What's more accessible here? It's still 88 pages of rules!

Plots and Paydata: 80 pages of adventures and tips for any Shadowrungamemaster.
Hier der erste echte neue Inhalt, den es so vorher noch nicht gab.
- There first real new content that didn't exist before.

Eight double-sided maps to help players and GMs track the action.
Alle Maps gab es auch vorher schon in diesen Sprawl Sites supplements. habe ich alle schon, brauche ich keine von doppelt.
- All maps existed previously in the Spawl Sites supplements. I have all of them and don't need doubles.

110 spell, weapon, and gear cards for quick reference.
Das mag als Hardcopy ganz ok sein, als PDF in der miesen Qualität völlig unbrauchbar, da die Bilder vollständig verpixelt sind.
- This might be OK as a hardcopy but they are useless in a PDF due to the lousy quality since the pictures are completely pixelated.

5 pre-generated characters players can use right away.
Und noch mal 5 vorgenerierte Charaktere ... wie unglaublich nützlich.
- And five more pregenerated characters... how incredibly useful.

Also ich bin enttäuscht. Ob ich mir die Boxen noch holen werde, glaube ich nicht. NIX davon macht irgend einen Sinn.
- Well I am disappointed. I doubt I'll buy the boxes. None of this makes any sense. (Or rather, this is pointless.)

[Samoth]

Catalyst's facebook page claims this has eratta, but they also say the real eratta is coming soon...heard that one before.

[Sengir]

Here's hoping Pegasus makes good on their promises to just release their own box, improved and unrelated to this money-grabbing scheme.

Unrelated maybe, but I'll only believe in a better entry product (instead of a dumbed-down spinoff from the main line) when I see it. Like I said, it's a popular fallacy among publishers, maybe Pegasus just wants to fit in (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)



(The ultimate irony award in this regard goes to Wizards. Long after they stopped printing separate starter sets because nobody liked to have his first cards turn out to be useless for actual play, Wizards actually made the starter sets legal in "eternal" formats. With obvious results)