Rule changes from 2nd to 3rd that didn't take, What didn't you change? Options

[booklord]

When I switched from 2nd to 3rd Edition years ago some of the ol rules stuck. We voted on which rules we'd take and which ones we'd keep. I'll give an example of a rule that didn't take.

The astral damage table in shadowrun 2nd Edition was :

Unarmed Astral : (Charisma) L
Weapon Foci : (Charisma + Force/2) M
Dual nature : As physical damage
Spirit : ( force ) M
Barrier : ( force ) L

The astral damage table in shadowrun 3rd Edition is :

Unarmed Astral : ( Charisma ) M
Weapon Foci : ( Charisma ) + weapon type
Dual Nature : As physical damage
Spirit : ( force ) M
Barrier : ( force ) M

Well, that didn't sit well with the team mage. He had spent a lot of time bonding with his weapon foci dagger which had suddenly become less affective then just fighting unarmed. The physical adept likewise felt cheated. Personally I felt that a Force 2 weapon foci dagger should do as much damage as a Force 2 weapon foci polearm. ( Polearm still gets a reach bonus ) So we kept the old table.


Anyone else keep any rules from 2nd Edition when they switched from 3rd Edition?

[Herald of Verjig...]

Skill web.

[broho_pcp]

Skill Web = Booh-Yeah!!!

[Arethusa]

Skill web?

[A Clockwork Lime]

Skill Web = Defaulting on Crack. You could default from Heavy Weapons to Biotech and from there to Corporate Etiquette if you really wanted to, but each skill you take on the path from one to the other added +1 to the TN. Basically, it was a table you had to reference regularly in order to default. 3rd Edition's system is much simpler and doesn't require much referencing once you get the basics down.

[Connor]

We kept the FoF strength recoil mods over the ones in CC.

[Arethusa]

[Connor]

Unfortunately most of my books are still packed up. I just moved not too long ago and I haven't unpacked most of that stuff yet.

Basically the FoF strength recoil mods are more generous than the ones in CC. So you get more recoil comp for a similar strength. Someone else around here my have a copy of FoF handy and can post up the table...

[Catsnightmare]

Just let me get my copy out of the scanner here, as soon as this gun is scanned...

Strength = Recoil reduction
1-4 = 0
5-6 = -1
7-8 = -2
9-10 = -3
11-12 = -4

[LoseAsDirected]

Man, I completely forgot about the skill web..

I never really liked that they changed so many spells.. I miss my Hellblast spell..

[Connor]

Thanks for posting that up Cats.

I also miss the Hellblast spell, and so did all the guys that played mages during the switch..heh. Although we never bothered to bring it back. I think for the most part we were happy or fine with tha changes and didn't see much reason to keep the older material around except in a few rare cases. But it's been so long now I don't really know if I can name anything else at the moment.

[A Clockwork Lime]

Wasn't Hellblast just a Deadly Fireball with no variation?

[Connor]

ACL, it's been so long, I'm incilned to think you're right. Perhaps that's why we never bothered to do anything with it. I didn't do a lot of magic stuff in 2nd Edition and not until we were well into the 3rd Ed. conversion...

[L.D]

[Rock-Steady]

We still use the 2nd Ed Attribute Karma Costs.

[Abstruse]

There were big dots and little dots too...big dots were +2TN and little dots were +1TN I believe...it may have been +4 and +2, or they were half-dots or something...but you could roll your Magical Theory or your Enchanting skill for your Sorcery or Conjuring :P

The Abstruse One

[L.D]

I conjure a city spirit using... Aura Reading! :D

It was +2, except if you where using a concentration/specialization. I tried to understand how to use the +1 thingy (it's in SRC), but it gave me a headache.

[Namergon]

[snowRaven]

New Hellblast Spell:
Elemental manipulation, Area effect, Physical, Instant, Fire Elemental Effect, Blast Elemental Effect - final drain of +1(Damage level+3) (Cast it at Deadly for +7D drain, or at Light for +1D drain...).

For real nasty effect, add the Extended Area modifier as well, and you have a +9D ranged elemental manipulation doing deadly damage with fire and blast effects, that targets an area with Magic x 10 meter radius.

(For cool effect and more nastiness, you might want to add Smoke elemental effects too - merely an additional +2 drain power. No sweat.)

Nothing like it! :grinbig:

[phaedrus]

I never played 2nd ed, but I've been told there were different rules for initiative passes - that being super fast didn't just mean you went first, but it meant you went more than once before the non-super quick characters? Is that right? Why did they change it? (Please, if this is going to start some kind of flame over reaction/speed of movement then I'll just take the question back and you can all pretend I didn't ask...)

[Cray74]

Initiative. My group sticks to SR2 initiative.

SR3 went a long way to giving slower characters a better chance to act early in combat, rather than letting high initiative characters dominate combat. SR3 is much fairer system.

However, I don't believe combat should be fair (at least in that fashion). Hence, I stick to SR2 initiative.

[Abstruse]

SR2 Initiative went like this: Roll your initiative. Start with the highest number. That person acts, then subtracts 10 from their number. Repeat. So your Street Sam rolls his 12 + 4d6 and gets a 39, and your combat decker rolls his 6 + 1d6 and gets a 7. That means the sam's going to use EVERY ONE of his actions before the decker gets a single shot off. Makes gettign those reflex boosters much more important.

The Abstruse One

[phaedrus]

So is it common to keep the SR2 rules on initiative? Makes more sense to me - if someone is that much faster than you, why should you get to go after they've had only one of their four actions... Those who have spent the essence, nuyen and effort to be super fast should get the benefit. Otherwise my arthritic grandma still gets to fire her shotgun immediately after the super-wired street sam who just grabbed her purse.

[northern lights]

i totally prefer the 2nd edition init spirit. the sammie was lightning for a reason, he needed to get that mage down and fast. now you have a character rolling 5d6+14 and you're toast cause everyone else gets their shot in on you. okay so you're double everyone else, well that sucks. you take out one dude you're first init pass then all 5 remaining guys gun you down one l or m at a time. the only thing in 3rd that follows this spirit is the required extra actions for move by wire.

makes a fast physad useless unless he can soak 5 hits.

[Abstruse]

It does make more logical sense that way, but the other way no one other than a speed freak cyberzombie or initiated adept would stand a chance in combat. It was an attempt to solve that particular problem without letting those who spend all that nuyen/karma/essence/power points to become super-fast lose the advantages of that. Personally, I go with a 3rd Ed just because I don't like my PCs dying and I don't like pulling punches either.

The Abstruse One