[X] My Assistant

[Drace]

Call my crazy... but wouldn't that do nothing to your ear except maybe scare the frag out of you? I know they tested really hard to get a .50 from a rifle to break glass just by passing close to it to no avail.

There has to be substantial force for any damage to be done to the ear drums. Like on the level of artillery and explosives blasting nearby. Then again those can 'scramble' the brain and just kill the person in question anyways. That's also why if a gun is discharged close enough to the ear it can cause hearing damage, and depending on the blast force of the gun in question, possible death.

Though I can't tell do specifics, I just recently started researching guns and artillery effects

[Sendaz]

Call my crazy... but wouldn't that do nothing to your ear except maybe scare the frag out of you? I know they tested really hard to get a .50 from a rifle to break glass just by passing close to it to no avail.

Probably, these special called shots are looking like more special effects than actual damage, they mention overstimulate not making you bleed out your ears, so probably counting on the slap of air on the ear to cause a kneejerk reaction, because you do not KNOW it's a miss and first instinct may be to duck with a light ringing in the ear.

though we will have to wait until the full piece comes out to see what the actual effect is.

[tasti man LH]

So reading through it, it does seem to confirm that Martial Arts is getting revised. A lot of the new Called Shots are some of the old Maneuvers from Arsenal. So in other words, instead of having to get the Martial Arts quality, and spend additional karma just to get the Maneuvers, now once you get Martial Arts, your character will be able to perform all of the special Called Shots without spending any karma. So that's cool.

The thing I'm tilting my head at though is that RG4 seems to be just the regular Initiative rules but just reworded. Am I missing something?

[Sendaz]

The thing I'm tilting my head at though is that RG4 seems to be just the regular Initiative rules but just reworded. Am I missing something?

It is different.

if character A has 21 init and B has 9, under the original system, both can act on the first IP. A goes first as they have the higher init. After that they discount 10, leaving A with 11 and B has nothing left. So A gets two more IP, one at 11 and another at 1


RG4 would have it so you check at each step of init, so A moves at 21 Init having the IP basically all to themselves as B is still waiting until it counts down to 9,and then reduce by 10, so at 11 Character A get to start their second IP and can not act again until 1.

Meanwhile once 9 comes around only then B can act, so A gets to do two actions before they even get to respond, the action back at 21 and 11 with B following at 9 with A taking their final action at 1.

You still get the same number of IP per character, but when they are taken has shifted.

It does have a certain thrill to it as it can mean acting/moving multiple times before the non reaction enhanced sorts even realize you are plowing through them, but slower players may feel a bit left behind...

[tasti man LH]

...ugh. If that's the case, it would certainly help to have worded it a bit better, or have one of those shiny example boxes that the core book was so proud of.

The other thing that I feel needs clarifying is the Movement Penalties table, specifically "Ranged Attack Penalty". I'm not sure if they mean if the penalty is for someone firing on a character that is moving the listed distance, or if the character is shooting while moving that distance.

[Sendaz]

The other thing that I feel needs clarifying is the Movement Penalties table, specifically "Ranged Attack Penalty". I'm not sure if they mean if the penalty is for someone firing on a character that is moving the listed distance, or if the character is shooting while moving that distance.

for RG3 the first column (Ranged Attack Penalty) applies modifiers to actions taken against characters based on how fast they are moving that Action Phase. Original was a flat -2 if target was running, -4 if sprinting, now its the actual speed in play.

It looks like they are just spreading out the penalty to shoot at a runner/sprinter/vehicles so now it can be -1 up to -6.

It does not specifically state the penalty for actions taken by the running party themselves, so it probably is just the standard -2 for taking any actions while running (except running/sprinting of course (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ) as sprinting is a complex action anyway, but there is nothing to stop you from house ruling this and applying the same penalties to a running shooter as it will usually fall into the -1 to -3 range. Call it GR3.5 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Blade]

I like this preview better than the two others. It's nice that they warn about the side effects of the optional rules.

[Sendaz]

I like this preview better than the two others. It's nice that they warn about the side effects of the optional rules.

Indeed, makes it feel more like it was tested with feedback given.

Though again I am wondering if the original testing for GR5 was using SR4 armor values as the increase in armor for SR5 really makes a bit of a shift in the applied penalties for even moderate gear. But that may be needed since you wont be getting loads of stun damage either when you do get hit.

Gotta keep bouncing numbers, and bullets, off it and see how it compares in long run.

[tasti man LH]

Yeah; at best, have the penalty instead be half of the Armor rating.

Does make me remind me of that one optional rule in SR4 that lets Armor Rating be just a straight deduction on the DV...which meant that under that rule, if you had any decent bit of Armor (aka Armored Jackets or Lined Coats) Pistols would be almost useless and that you'd be nickle-and-diming the opposition doing 1-2 damage unless if everyone brought APDS rounds.

[mister__joshua]

I haven't read the preview (or this thread) yet, but I've been missing hit locations ever since we stopped playing 2020, so I'll read this one with interest (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Medicineman]

Optional Rule #1 has made me especially happy

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
I just want to say thanks ro whomever is responsible.


RG4 seems to me like the old SR2 IniRules ?!

with a happy Dance
Medicineman

[Moirdryd]

Yep, its the SR2 initiative system Medicineman. I spotted that too.

[binarywraith]

Yep, its the SR2 initiative system Medicineman. I spotted that too.

Well, they were a pretty popular alternative ruleset for SR3. I'm not sure if I like them or not yet given SR5's rebalance of initiative enhancers. Only one way to tell, but that requires I finish annotating these house rules to match the errata. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Medicineman]

Uhhh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) Gamesmaster beware of that optional Rule !
a dedicated mystic Adept can get an initiative of 30 + 5D6
It was a good thing to change the Ini from SR2 --> SR3 and 4
this optional rule may cause some unhappy players ,especially if you've got an ...Inimonster

with a very fast Dance
Medicineman

[Draco18s]

a dedicated mystic Adept can get an initiative of 30 + 5D6

An average of 47!
Very fast dancing indeed.

[X-Kalibur]

That's why the GM should keep players in check. Now, if your team is on average sporting 2 to 3 passes, this can be a bit of a nice rest from some slow ass gangers always getting a shot off if you don't 1 shot them all at once.

[Medicineman]

Uuups sorry (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif) I meant to write 36 + 5D6 so an Ini of 50+ or even 60 is posssible
OK he'd need about 80-90 Karma ,MAG 8, 2 Spelllocks rating 5 ,pos qual focused rating 4 and an Initiation
but thats really within reach of a dedicated Char

with an even faster Dance
Medicineman

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It is different.

if character A has 21 init and B has 9, under the original system, both can act on the first IP. A goes first as they have the higher init. After that they discount 10, leaving A with 11 and B has nothing left. So A gets two more IP, one at 11 and another at 1


RG4 would have it so you check at each step of init, so A moves at 21 Init having the IP basically all to themselves as B is still waiting until it counts down to 9,and then reduce by 10, so at 11 Character A get to start their second IP and can not act again until 1.

Meanwhile once 9 comes around only then B can act, so A gets to do two actions before they even get to respond, the action back at 21 and 11 with B following at 9 with A taking their final action at 1.

You still get the same number of IP per character, but when they are taken has shifted.

It does have a certain thrill to it as it can mean acting/moving multiple times before the non reaction enhanced sorts even realize you are plowing through them, but slower players may feel a bit left behind...

So... SR2 style initiative... No thanks.

[Samoth]

The SR2 style rewarded people who got as much IP boosting augments as possible and penalized anyone who didn't. Luckily it's an optional rule, otherwise any combat-oriented character had better be an adept with Improved Reflexes 3, otherwise they may never get to act!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The SR2 style rewarded people who got as much IP boosting augments as possible and penalized anyone who didn't. Luckily it's an optional rule, otherwise any combat-oriented character had better be an adept with Improved Reflexes 3, otherwise they may never get to act!

Yeah, I know... And I was glad to see it in the rearview mirror once 3rd Edition came out.

[tasti man LH]

Then don't use it; it's an optional rule, after all. I certainly won't be using it since the base rules I find more appealing.

[Samoth]

Same here, that's why I said luckily it's an optional rule.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Then don't use it; it's an optional rule, after all. I certainly won't be using it since the base rules I find more appealing.

Wasn't planning on it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Sadly, the more I see of SR5, the less I like it.

[JesterZero]

I see that despite the efforts of previous editions of Shadowrun to not equate higher Body/Strength with size, SR5 has decided to do the exact opposite. I'm actually more peeved by that than I am by silly wireless bonuses and numbers that don't make sense. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Jack VII]

So in other words, instead of having to get the Martial Arts quality, and spend additional karma just to get the Maneuvers, now once you get Martial Arts, your character will be able to perform all of the special Called Shots without spending any karma.

I thought I remember seeing somewhere in the text that you did have to purchase certain manuevers with karma. I'm not sure if that includes the ones listed.

Oh, here it is:

Some of the Called Shots in this chapter are also different in that they double as Martial Arts techniques, which are moves a trained character can buy for Karma and then make use of at a discounted modifier

Yeah, I am not at all sure what it means though... have to wait for the book.