Question about GOD, militaries and deckers Options

[Warlordtheft]

Well clearly it's becoming apparent to even the meanest of understandings that CGL doesn't care about putting out quality products.

I got excited, I bought the SR5 corebook when it first came out, and ended I up getting burned. I was utterly disappointed, and it really was the final straw for absolutely destroying their reputation in my eyes. Clearly I'm not the only one, and I suspect the actual number of dissatisfied customers is rather proportionally high. But our complaints aren't merely being actively ignored, they're being flat out denied and dismissed.

I say it's high time we wrote off CGL as what they are - an unscrupulous bunch of uncaring profiteers. If they can't be arsed to give the community what it wants, I say it's high time the community tells them to shove off and stops paying for their drek. I feel bad for the writers and the freelancers and the well-intentioned contributors who actually care about the game system and who try to work within the limits of the CGL system to put out half-decent material for the community at large, but it's clear they're being hamstringed as content creators just as much as we are as players.

With any luck CGL will go under and someone competant will buy the rights. (Dare I hope for Harebrained Studios?) I'm sick of this settling for less, shelling out for inferior products because nothing else is available. If they won't provide a quality product, then by god I want their competitors to have the chance to do so.

~Umi

I wouldn't go that far, but the binding they used was terrible (have later reprints been better?). I read through it once and almost half the pages fell out--dam annoying. After reading the rules though, I kind of have the same apathy for 5th that I do for third (Loved 2nd and 4th, 1st was well the first). I also don't like the limit mechanics on everything--especially in combat.

Back OT: Militaries probably run their comms via laser and directed microwave rather over radio as much as possible. The benefit is that unlike radio waves, those are much harder to jam, or intercept. Would they need all the wifi enhanced stuff? Maybe on the tactical level at very short range. So then it becomes a resource issue for deckers and riggers since the cost of the gear went up dramatically. Also, only the corps span globally, there is no superpower (only the corporate court and the toothless UN), so even strategic communications could be handled in this manner.

The problem with using jammers is that the jamming site/device becomes instant target by the OPFOR. By its very nature it can't hide its location, so the enemy knows its there and sends a drone/missle/EMP pulse to the jammed area to neutralize it.

For full on conventional battle this would most likely be SOP. For SpecOPs, they will most likely run silent (no radio emissions, all wireless off) or keep their comms to such a low signal range that they cant be detected until they are right on top of their targets. Naval warfare probably relies on the ECM/ECCM technologies of the participants, but given they have orbital weapon platforms I'd expect a naval action to be extremely short and bloody and the TO to be size of the gulf of mexico at a minimum.

[Sendaz]

As an aside, some of Malcolm X's speeches would make fabulous SR neo-anarchist materials just by changing around a few names and terms.

<clipped for brevity>
~Umi

That would actually be a hell of a flavour text for future introductions to the setting, especially when you are trying to explain the whole corp/common joe mechanism.

[Umidori]

Also, only the corps span globally, there is no superpower (only the corporate court and the toothless UN), so even strategic communications could be handled in this manner.

There may not be any full blown superpowers, but my recent reading seems to suggest Japan comes pretty darn close to being one.

A third of the megacorps, a top notch military, colonial holdings all through Asia, and little interference from dragons - despite their internal troubles, they're not doing too shabby, all things considered.

~Umi

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Back OT: Militaries probably run their comms via laser and directed microwave rather over radio as much as possible. The benefit is that unlike radio waves, those are much harder to jam, or intercept. Would they need all the wifi enhanced stuff? Maybe on the tactical level at very short range. So then it becomes a resource issue for deckers and riggers since the cost of the gear went up dramatically. Also, only the corps span globally, there is no superpower (only the corporate court and the toothless UN), so even strategic communications could be handled in this manner.

Naah - Laser and Microwave require LOS and a Straight path (neither bend well for when the target moves around). They just use Tactical Radios, which are not on the Matrix Inherently.

[Warlordtheft]

Naah - Laser and Microwave require LOS and a Straight path (neither bend well for when the target moves around). They just use Tactical Radios, which are not on the Matrix Inherently.

If your defending the UCAS, put a bunch of Microwave towers or aerostats (Basically stationary balloons) strategically and all your territory could be easily covered without the expense/vulnerabnilities of satalite communcations. As for front line units at the battalion and lower, radio is the way to go. All comms could jump through those points as needed and then to a radio relay to the unit. The towers and aerostats would be vulnerable to attack though. Drone control might be tricky as well, I think it would mostly be in command chair mode rather than directly controlled by the rigger.

[Umidori]

Balloons and other aerostatic vehicles are notoriously weather susceptible, and as you point out they're giant bullet magnets. Satellites are much more reliable, in that it's actually pretty hard to get missiles into space.

Besides, in the SR future they already have corporate run space stations - surely putting satellites into orbit can be accomplished cheaply and easily. Hell, in the modern day the price is dropping all the time.

~Umi

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Plus, they have thor shots. Who says they can only be aimed at the earth?

[Umidori]

Mass drivers kind of require a gravity well to impart extra kinetic energy. They also aren't terribly precise weapons, by dint of not really needing to be.

I guess you could shoot one at the moon or something, but no one in their right mind would try to shoot down satellites with a Thor shot.

~Umi

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Mass drivers kind of require a gravity well to impart extra kinetic energy. They also aren't terribly precise weapons, by dint of not really needing to be.

I guess you could shoot one at the moon or something, but no one in their right mind would try to shoot down satellites with a Thor shot.

~Umi

Bu Crazy breeds whole new ideas on how to use Thor Shots in Space. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

They could take one of those low angle shots that make the projectile bounce away from the atmosphere, and pick speed as he does that.

[Umidori]

And use that to... what... hit a target the size of a school bus orbiting the earth at a speed of 7.8 km/s? I seriously doubt anyone builds a mass driver to be capable of that sort of precision, especially when there are much easier ways to down a satellite. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

~Umi

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

And use that to... what... hit a target the size of a school bus orbiting the earth at a speed of 7.8 km/s? I seriously doubt anyone builds a mass driver to be capable of that sort of precision, especially when there are much easier ways to down a satellite. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

~Umi

Though I would argue that we are capable of calculating that precision, just not sure we could execute accurately hitting it consistently.

[binarywraith]

Balloons and other aerostatic vehicles are notoriously weather susceptible, and as you point out they're giant bullet magnets. Satellites are much more reliable, in that it's actually pretty hard to get missiles into space.

Besides, in the SR future they already have corporate run space stations - surely putting satellites into orbit can be accomplished cheaply and easily. Hell, in the modern day the price is dropping all the time.

~Umi

They're also inside the manasphere, so it's trivial to tell an air elemental to go knock them down.

[Umidori]

Well, you don't HAVE to put satellites into low earth orbits - they could just as well go into high earth orbits if you really want the anti-spirit protection.

~Umi

[Happy Trees]

Does the manasphere extend high enough to reach low satellites? I was under the impression it didn't.

[binarywraith]

Does the manasphere extend high enough to reach low satellites? I was under the impression it didn't.

Nope. Sub-orbital flights go outside of it, in fact. I was more talking about dirigibles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

At the upper mesosphere of Earth’s atmosphere and beyond into deep space, the astral plane is a singular void with small pockets of weak mana located at orbital stations and lunar colonies.

The upper mesosphere is well below LEO.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

And use that to... what... hit a target the size of a school bus orbiting the earth at a speed of 7.8 km/s? I seriously doubt anyone builds a mass driver to be capable of that sort of precision, especially when there are much easier ways to down a satellite. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

~Umi

Well, sure, so far we don't have O'Neil stations but eventually they would become a real thing and I believe it would be far easier to bypass their many security measures if hit directly from space than from sending a rocket from the Earth's surface toward it.

[Aaron]

Until its in Errata (or the Matrix book), I don't agree with Aaron's ruling being RAW.

For what it's worth, I don't think Aaron's rulings are RAW, either. I'm just a freelancer. I'm not Part of the Shadowrun Team^TM. I'm part of a team of freelancers, certainly, but not the team who makes the decisions about the game or the canon.

[Jaid]

which is unfortunate, because sometimes i think we'd be better off with trained monkeys doing that job, and the current crop of freelancers are several orders of magnitude better than trained monkeys =S

[binarywraith]

which is unfortunate, because sometimes i think we'd be better off with trained monkeys doing that job, and the current crop of freelancers are several orders of magnitude better than trained monkeys =S

I'm going with 'untrained monkeys, only capable of communicating by flinging poo at a glass window'.

[DeathStrobe]

For what it's worth, I don't think Aaron's rulings are RAW, either. I'm just a freelancer. I'm not Part of the Shadowrun Team^TM. I'm part of a team of freelancers, certainly, but not the team who makes the decisions about the game or the canon.

I do apologize. I don't mean to make it sound like I'm ungrateful for at least a little bit of feedback on a possible interpretation of the rules. But in the case of jammers not being able to jam communications, it just doesn't make sense to me, and would very much limit the usefulness of jammers if you couldn't use it to cause at least a little chaos by jamming communications.

But I know that its not like your rulings are law. Its just one other person's interpretation. And while your opinion may have more weight than my own (in the eyes of the SR fan base at least), its not like the freelancers are are any more or less correct than anyone else...maybe unless it has something to do with meta plot events or something.