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> Run & Gun is Live, I'll kill you to death!!!...with the help of this book
tasti man LH
post Apr 10 2014, 04:43 AM
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Drivethru RPG link here.

Start grabbin' your guns and blowin' shit up!

(can't get it now; will have to get a couple of days from now)
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Grak
post Apr 10 2014, 05:30 AM
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Any word on when we can find it in meatspace?
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BlackJaw
post Apr 10 2014, 05:39 AM
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I just took a quick look at the table of contents in the preview.

Pi-Tac is Personal Integrated Tactical Network. I was wondering about that from a preview before. I'm curious to see what it does in 5th edition.

"Gear Qualities" for Counterfeit, Defective, and Hot. I'm hoping I can apply one of those to the Ares Venture in my T-Bird build and make it cheaper. I'm not sure why they are at the end of the explosives chapter in the table of contents.

I'm not sure when I can buy the book. Anyone picking up the pdf now want to let me know what's generally up with these things? Anything really cool in the book that's unexpected?
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tasti man LH
post Apr 10 2014, 05:48 AM
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QUOTE (BlackJaw @ Apr 9 2014, 09:39 PM) *
I'm not sure when I can buy the book. Anyone picking up the pdf now want to let me know what's generally up with these things? Anything really cool in the book that's unexpected?

Give people time man; it's going to be a bit before the in-depth analysis that DS is so fond of are out in the wild. And especially since skim-throughs can be taken wildly out of context.
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ProfGast
post Apr 10 2014, 06:03 AM
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I'm reading through right now so don't yet have answers for you BlackJaw. However I would just like to put out the first thing that caught my eye so far:

Weapon Attachement- Underbarrel Chainsaw.

Groovy.

Edit: A quick skimthrough of PI-Tac yields the answer that it is Not Meant For Starting Runners By Any Means.
Seems like it's an extremely expensive (500k - 1M) tacnet that gives set bonuses to users. It's a hardware based tacnet so no cobbling sensors etc together but the prohibitive cost and availability (starts at 18!!) seem to imply that you're not meant to have one until quite a ways into a campaign.
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Ixal
post Apr 10 2014, 07:00 AM
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A note on the hotly discussed milspec armor, it now has the restrictive quality which halves the movement rate and forces fatigue rolls when running.
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RHat
post Apr 10 2014, 07:43 AM
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QUOTE (ProfGast @ Apr 10 2014, 12:03 AM) *
I'm reading through right now so don't yet have answers for you BlackJaw. However I would just like to put out the first thing that caught my eye so far:

Weapon Attachement- Underbarrel Chainsaw.

Groovy.

Edit: A quick skimthrough of PI-Tac yields the answer that it is Not Meant For Starting Runners By Any Means.
Seems like it's an extremely expensive (500k - 1M) tacnet that gives set bonuses to users. It's a hardware based tacnet so no cobbling sensors etc together but the prohibitive cost and availability (starts at 18!!) seem to imply that you're not meant to have one until quite a ways into a campaign.


Additionally, though, it looks like a "buy it once for the entire team" thing. So it's expensive as all hell, but the whole team's putting the money in for it.

Also, some of these new interrupts are really cool.
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Umidori
post Apr 10 2014, 08:31 AM
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QUOTE (Ixal @ Apr 10 2014, 12:00 AM) *
A note on the hotly discussed milspec armor, it now has the restrictive quality which halves the movement rate and forces fatigue rolls when running.

Is it still absurdly, insanely cheap?

Somehow I don't think the movement speed reduction is going to matter. If you're in the market for 23 Hardened Armor, you're not really concerned with how fast you can trot. And since 5E movement is based directly on Agility, that means this limit is least effective against those who pump their Agility - who are exactly the kind of characters who will benefit most from this armor, since Agility is favored by people who want to kill stuff.

So the only real difference is that now the fragile glass cannon assassins with Body as a dump-stat can pay half the cost of the cheapest cyberdeck in the game to get themselves literally the single set of best armor in the game, shrugging off almost all man-portable weaponry better than the biggest Troll in the world ever could on their own, all while blowing away the opposition left and right. And they can even Sneak in it. (The fluff even states these suits come standard with a "modern electro-chromatic covering for best camo").

Plus, most Runners try to avoid combat if they can, and they only ever really end up running when the drek hits the fan. At that point, most people are going to prefer being bulletproof to being able to run a bit faster - after all, it's easy to escape from people who can't hurt you, and even easier once you kill them all with impunity safe inside your god armor.

~Umi
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RHat
post Apr 10 2014, 09:03 AM
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Might want to check out the Bulls-Eye Double-Tap/Burst Called Shot. Depending on how you read it, you can REALLY crank your AP, up to something like -18 or -21 (if "base AP" is factoring the benefit of APDS; given the way the math works out for a number of weapons otherwise, I'm assuming that's the case).
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tasti man LH
post Apr 10 2014, 09:09 AM
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...and I should note that back in Arsenal, milpec armor was CHEAPER then the SR5 versions. And as far as I know, I didn't hear stories of everyone on the team buying up milpec armor "because why wouldn't you?"
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Sendaz
post Apr 10 2014, 10:36 AM
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Heh,

If CanRay hated tasers stunning over and over, he better hope they never implement the called shot effects on specific body parts for SRR because a mob of hobos doing this will ruin your day. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Eye Gouging, Kneecapping, Ear Clap, Monkey reaching for Peaches (hitting below the belt), Slitting Throats ... now this is good old fashioned dirty fighting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Umidori
post Apr 10 2014, 11:23 AM
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QUOTE (tasti man LH @ Apr 10 2014, 03:09 AM) *
...and I should note that back in Arsenal, milpec armor was CHEAPER then the SR5 versions. And as far as I know, I didn't hear stories of everyone on the team buying up milpec armor "because why wouldn't you?"

You should also note that back in Arsenal, a full suit of Milspec armor had 5-7 fewer points of armor, had less capacity, was limited by Body x3 for Encumbrance rather than "you can wear any single 'suit' of armor without penalty", lacked a built in Holster and Gear Access, didn't give a bonus to Intimidation rolls, and you could hack with cheap commlinks instead of absurdly priced cyberdecks, so comparing the costs of the two gave you a very different ratio of cost.

Oh, yeah, and one more -tiny- detail - MilSpec wasn't HARDENED ARMOR in 4E.

*drops the keyboard and walks off stage*

~Umi
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Smash
post Apr 10 2014, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE
Concealed quick-draw holster (accessory): What
more do you want a holster to do? .........................
..........................................................................
It won’t fire the thing for you, though, so buckle down
and do it yourself. The holster does not take any slots
in your weapon. Please excuse our compulsion to point
out fairly obvious stuff like that.


That certainly saved a 20 page thread here.
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Sendaz
post Apr 10 2014, 12:06 PM
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QUOTE (Smash @ Apr 10 2014, 07:00 AM) *
That certainly saved a 20 page thread here.

When has that ever stopped us? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Am a little surprised that all it costs for jumping up from Heavy Security Armor (not hardened) to Hardened Mil Spec costwise is just 5k and of course that harder Availability.

Wonder if they did it so we can not whack Red Samurai and hock their armor for big profits? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Jack VII
post Apr 10 2014, 12:38 PM
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QUOTE (Smash @ Apr 10 2014, 07:00 AM) *
That certainly saved a 20 page thread here.

That was never the issue. It's whether a holdout pistol can use it, which still remains unanswered, LOL. (Tongue in cheek, of course)

P.S. The Medium and Heavy Hardened MilSpec armor looks bad ass.
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Slide_Eurhetemec
post Apr 10 2014, 12:42 PM
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Well, having glanced through it at lunchtime, this definitely doesn't look great. I mean, we've got repetition of a lot of the usual weapons and features, without much apparent care for balance or logic (mono-garotte, 18F availability, COMBAT mono-chainsaw, I repeated COMBAT-specific mono-chainsaw, availability 9R...), the face-palm-worthy armour (somehow, chainmail, which IRL is 100% incapable of stopping any kind of bullet at all, has AV8 against bullets... almost the same as armour vest! Similarly padded bloody leather is AV7... let's not even start on the hardened armor), then there's the tactics chapter, where you have to score ludicrous numbers of successes to pull of even very basic combat maneuvers that I guarantee anyone who has ever played a squad shooter can pull off (let alone someone who has ever done paintball!), then we go on to witness the majestic procession across the African plains of a gigantic herd of called shots, weird shots and inexplicable shots, each and every one with it's own rules, frequently using the same terminology to indicate different penalties and the like! Many of these shots are very poorly described, to the point where it is completely unclear what they do, and some of them have some very unclear rules associated with them!

Hopefully a deeper look finds some better stuff!
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Curator
post Apr 10 2014, 01:20 PM
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i want the meatspace version
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Curator
post Apr 10 2014, 02:23 PM
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i hope there's a write-up for the martial arts skills an such. translating the 4e rules doesn't work well. oooboy!
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Sendaz
post Apr 10 2014, 02:25 PM
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QUOTE (Curator @ Apr 10 2014, 09:23 AM) *
i hope there's a write-up for the martial arts skills an such. translating the 4e rules doesn't work well. oooboy!

They do introduce techniques and such... looks fun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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BlackJaw
post Apr 10 2014, 02:32 PM
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I'm really interested to see if there are rules for getting discounts on items or lowering availability.

The Gear Qualities (Counterfeit, Defective, Hot) or Positive Quality: Brand Loyalty?

If they do lower the price, do the rules explicitly work or not work on vehicles?

The Ares Venture in my T-Bird Build is crazy expensive and I can use all the help I can get on it.
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Jack VII
post Apr 10 2014, 02:34 PM
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Ugh... those repair rules. Really no point for vehicles to have such massive condition monitors considering the cost to repair and cumulative penalties.

For instance, the cost to repair a Ford Americar from an average single successful 1-net hit AK-97 attack is about 9,600 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) in parts. Not even counting the labor.
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ProfGast
post Apr 10 2014, 02:58 PM
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QUOTE (BlackJaw @ Apr 10 2014, 04:32 AM) *
I'm really interested to see if there are rules for getting discounts on items or lowering availability.

The Gear Qualities (Counterfeit, Defective, Hot) or Positive Quality: Brand Loyalty?

If they do lower the price, do the rules explicitly work or not work on vehicles?

The Ares Venture in my T-Bird Build is crazy expensive and I can use all the help I can get on it.

Sorry Blackjaw, the Gear Qualities are penalties that can be assigned to gear so that the GM can make the runner's life more difficult, not grades like used 'ware.

Brand Loyalty gives you a bonus for using one brand of gear (and a penalty for using out-of-brand). No discounts.

Discounts are available for armor (Lightly Worn) though the requirements and penalties for that one are a bit weird.
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BlackJaw
post Apr 10 2014, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE (ProfGast @ Apr 10 2014, 10:58 AM) *
Sorry Blackjaw, the Gear Qualities are penalties that can be assigned to gear so that the GM can make the runner's life more difficult, not grades like used 'ware.

Brand Loyalty gives you a bonus for using one brand of gear (and a penalty for using out-of-brand). No discounts.

Nuts. I was hoping for something like Gremlins 2, 20% off.

Well, with no weapon modification rules and no discount tricks I can use, I'm suddenly much less interested.
QUOTE (Jack VII @ Apr 10 2014, 10:34 AM) *
Ugh... those repair rules. Really no point for vehicles to have such massive condition monitors considering the cost to repair and cumulative penalties.

For instance, the cost to repair a Ford Americar from an average single successful 1-net hit AK-97 attack is about 9,600 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) in parts. Not even counting the labor.

Oh this is going to suck for a $400,000 Body 16 Ares Venture isn't it?
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Jack VII
post Apr 10 2014, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE (BlackJaw @ Apr 10 2014, 09:20 AM) *
Oh this is going to suck for a $400,000 Body 16 Ares Venture isn't it?

That depends, is 40,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) per box of damage a problem for you? (I would think that yes, it probably is).

Granted, you've got pretty solid armor, but if you're facing something like a lightning bolt spell or an elemental attack from a F6 spirit, you're probably going to be taking a few boxes of damage. Each one: 40,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)
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Stahlseele
post Apr 10 2014, 03:27 PM
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QUOTE (Jack VII @ Apr 10 2014, 03:34 PM) *
Ugh... those repair rules. Really no point for vehicles to have such massive condition monitors considering the cost to repair and cumulative penalties.

For instance, the cost to repair a Ford Americar from an average single successful 1-net hit AK-97 attack is about 9,600 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) in parts. Not even counting the labor.

wait . . 9600 nuyen?
isn't that a car that only cost about 10k? O.o
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