Run & Gun is Live, I'll kill you to death!!!...with the help of this book Options

[ProfGast]

So . . get an RFID killer and buy stuff on the cheap and then say neener neener to your GM when he tries to give you shit for buying on the cheap? O.o

No that is exactly not how I imagine it is intended to be used. The entry gives neither an actual %cost reduction to use in the case that you are using a hot piece of gear, nor does it say actually wiping the serials etc will make it non-hot. In theory, you could RFID sweep, file off serial numbers, Astrally cleanse, the works. But the only way you're getting gear that is with the HOT quality is if the GM specifically gives it to you, and then it becomes a plot hook, NOT a crunch adjustment. Besides going through all the trouble to cleanse it of identifying features takes time, which you may not have if it's really being looked for, and money, which you just tried to spend less of.

Think something like Total Recall or Bourne Identity where you suddenly have people coming after your head and you don't know WHY… only to realize it was probably that cyberdeck you bought for really really cheap. That sort of price tag will definitely have strings attached.

Any new decks, comlinks, guns with decks/comlinks in them?

Weapon Commlink is an accessory. Weapon Cyberdeck not so much

[Xystophoroi]

But using a tag eraser takes seconds and turning wireless off is a free action so how are they tracking the gear?

Astral cleansing takes a few rounds...

How sounds more like it would be useful for unique stuff like cutting edge drones, or vehicles or 'ware or something that would immediately draw some interest from anyone who sees it in action. Not for getting a Novatech Navigator on the cheap.

[Ixal]

Just a reminder, the "hot" keyword does not simply mean that the stuff is stolen. Most things Runners buy are. It means, and the chapter about explosives (where this keyword is introduced anyway) is pretty explicit about it, that the authorities (Feds, Corpsec, KE, whoever owned that stuff) is actively searching for it and very close to finding it so that the fixer has to dump the ware right now so that he does not have squads of armed men kicking in his door. It is literally too hot for many people who make a business of fencing stolen goods or use said stolen goods to blow things up.

[ProfGast]

But using a tag eraser takes seconds and turning wireless off is a free action so how are they tracking the gear?

Astral cleansing takes a few rounds...

How sounds more like it would be useful for unique stuff like cutting edge drones, or vehicles or 'ware or something that would immediately draw some interest from anyone who sees it in action. Not for getting a Novatech Navigator on the cheap.

First off: What Ixal said.


Secondly:
I think people are making light on just how difficult and time consuming tag erasing might be. It's not just a matter of point and click.

First you must find all the tags. Stealth Tags, Hidden, what have you. That takes time.

You must bring the tag eraser within 5 mm of the object, so tags buried deep in the guts of an item must be accessed by opening/disassembling. That takes time.

Then you must use a tag eraser on each tag. A tag eraser can only be used every 10 seconds, if you have it connected to a power point. You also PROBABLY Should be careful when erasing tags since popping 10 boxes of matrix damage on electronics also takes time to fix.

Alternatively you could hack each tag. But that takes time as well.

And even after all of that you have no guaranty that you found everything.

[Umidori]

Or you could stick the item in a box lined with lead, or wi-fi negating paint.
Or put it in a Faraday cage.
Or stick it under a downward facing directional Jammer.
Or just take it sufficiently far underground, where the signals are blocked by the earth.

Then you have all the time in the world to clean it of RFIDs.

~Umi

[CanRay]

If you need to yiff it up good, though, go ask Bull how he really got his nickname. If you want I'll even lend you my pneumatic speargun! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ork.gif)

~Umi

IIRC, the nickname came from his Minotaur Avatar in the Matrix.

Hanlon's Razor is always applicable to CGL.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[tasti man LH]

Or you could stick the item in a box lined with lead, or wi-fi negating paint.
Or put it in a Faraday cage.
Or stick it under a downward facing directional Jammer.
Or just take it sufficiently far underground, where the signals are blocked by the earth.

Then you have all the time in the world to clean it of RFIDs.

~Umi

...and that's only if the runners are even aware that the item they have is Hot.

Chances are, when they first receive it, and when they start getting attacked by heavily armed strike teams, they won't know what the hell is going on.

[Umidori]

The problem is at that point we're talking less Item Modifier and more Plot Device, so why even waste lines in a book on the entry?

~Umi

[prionic6]

Had the same question from the preview, but Custom Fit (Stack) quality means the armor piece can stack with other Custom Fit pieces from the same manufacturer. What, exactly, is the Second Skin armor supposed to stack with? Is there some other Second Skin brand armor I am not seeing?

It says it stacks with "other pieces that have been Custom Fit by the same maker". I'd say if some armorer is custom fitting both pieces for you, he is "the maker". So it's possible to mix brands / manufacturers.

[tasti man LH]

The problem is at that point we're talking less Item Modifier and more Plot Device, so why even waste lines in a book on the entry?

~Umi

Oh, no, the only used a couple of lines in a +200 page book for a plot item, because there absolutely SHOULD not be any GM items. This clearly destroys the game entirely and renders everything unusable!!!!!111!!!!!!11!!!1!!

[Umidori]

Given the amount of useful stuff that gets excluded because of the almighty "Word Count", I think it's fair to apply the standard both ways and say "Why is this taking up word count? How is this useful?" when something absolutely useless gets included.

If you have a campaign or even just a one shot in which the Runners are supposed to come across a very "Hot" MacGuffin of some sort which gets the police on their tail and fuels the plot, then all you as a GM need to do is say that's how it works. You don't need the book giving you an official "Item Designation" for it.

What next? Is CGL going to put out little sheets of stickers to afix to your GM notes? "Wait, which NPC was this again? Oh, wait, a Smiley Face sticker! That means he's an ally, not an enemy. Phew. I got worried for a second there. What else? Aha! There's a Guns sticker and a Nuyen sticker too! Now I remember! This is their Arms Merchant contact!"

~Umi

[Ixal]

Then you have all the time in the world to clean it of RFIDs.

And what about all the other identifying marks which are mentioned in the core book?
Also, you still assume that the authorities are completely passive and are not searching for the stuff and so you can hide it forever as long as you do not use it. But that is not the case.

[Umidori]

Searching for something which isn't wirelessly broadcasting would mean following physical leads. If you're aware enough of the situation to be clearing out RFIDs, you're also aware enough to be covering your tracks and turning any leads into dead ends.

~Umi

[Ixal]

Searching for something which isn't wirelessly broadcasting would mean following physical leads. If you're aware enough of the situation to be clearing out RFIDs, you're also aware enough to be covering your tracks and turning any leads into dead ends.

~Umi

With all respect, that is just some generalized terms which in no way take the situation in the account.

There are already leads, thats why the item is hot in the first place and the fixer had to dump it. Runners are not magic fairies who can wave an eraser over an item and make everyone forget that it existed. The unique firmware codes are on file as are nanoetched serial codes, not only the ones for the item but for every component or weapons have their ballistics registered. The authorities are actively looking for this items and know where to look. And when they find and identify them the repercussions will be a lot worse than what you would normally expect.

A stolen Predator the runners buy at their local gang hideout is not hot and neither is the full crate of them they got from their fixer. But that one Predator used to kill the 5 year old daughter of a senator? That one is hot.

[tasti man LH]

Given the amount of useful stuff that gets excluded because of the almighty "Word Count", I think it's fair to apply the standard both ways and say "Why is this taking up word count? How is this useful?" when something absolutely useless gets included.

If you have a campaign or even just a one shot in which the Runners are supposed to come across a very "Hot" MacGuffin of some sort which gets the police on their tail and fuels the plot, then all you as a GM need to do is say that's how it works. You don't need the book giving you an official "Item Designation" for it.

What next? Is CGL going to put out little sheets of stickers to afix to your GM notes? "Wait, which NPC was this again? Oh, wait, a Smiley Face sticker! That means he's an ally, not an enemy. Phew. I got worried for a second there. What else? Aha! There's a Guns sticker and a Nuyen sticker too! Now I remember! This is their Arms Merchant contact!"

~Umi

Doesn't really matter in the long run.

It's only a couple of lines of text; whopdee fucking do. It's not as if it's taking up an entire page. Besides, items or rules that people will never use is pretty normal for any RPG. Most of the extra Runner Tools back in Arsenal I had no intention of using, nor did any of my players have any interest in using them. Does that mean that whole section was a waste of paper and how-dare-that-section-was-added-and-make-me-waste-*MY*-money? No. That would be silly and melodramatic. It's there if I need it; doesn't mean that I will use it.

If you hate it so much, take your big red marker, scratch it out, and not use it.

Besides, you act as if this is the only time that an item that's a GM tool is listed in a book. Carcerands, Shadowtech, anyone? And that one took up a whole page.

[Umidori]

It's not a question of this being a niche addition useful only to a select portion of GMs and player.

It's a question of "Why does this even exist? No one actually has a need for this". There is no niche to fill. It's like adding in a line that confirms that, yes, in the Shadowrun Universe, water is in fact still wet.

~Umi

[Ixal]

It's not a question of this being a niche addition useful only to a select portion of GMs and player.

It's a question of "Why does this even exist? No one actually has a need for this". There is no niche to fill. It's like adding in a line that confirms that, yes, in the Shadowrun Universe, water is in fact still wet.

~Umi

So lets remove all GM advice. They can all come up with it by themselves. Also stories and Shadowtalk? Unnecessary. If the book contains anything else besides table of stats it is a rip off.

[Xystophoroi]

As an aside I think the 'high threat team is coming round the corner right now!' is excessive from reading the entry.

Guns sold this way typically can be tied to crimes through ballistic forensics. Get caught with a gun connected to a high-profile homicide, and you are in deep drek, chummer. Oftentimes hot products still have serial numbers on them, and in some rare cases, their RFID tags are still active.

If you're getting something from your salesman at 50% off then something should immediately be setting off alarm bells in your head.

The entry does not come close to implying that you don't have time to respond or try and cover your tracks.

[Sengir]

Let's take a little jaunt through the ToC, shall we?

Mortimer of London “Trafalger” Gun Cane 27 -> Cape Trafalgar
SA Retiarus Net Gun 28 -> I'm not sure if the Rus did gladiatorial combat, but the guy with the net was called Retiarius
Nissan Optimum II 38 -> Nissan builds cars and drones, the Japanese army's weapons come from Nitama
Ultamax MMG 44 -> Ultimax since forever
Ultamax HMG-2 45

And I have to revise my earlier comment, "die Kunst des Fechtens" is both semantically and typographically correct...there is no good reason to replace a random heading like "fencing" with a foreign language, but at least it gives the book one instance of correct German (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Xystophoroi]

Is it me or is 'Agile Defender' a stupid quality?

3 karma and it's way better than the other 'replace Willpower for full defence' options.

Agility is usually going to be high anyway for attacks AND it can be more easily raised due to augmentations.

Ag10 is not hugely onerous to get while Willpower 10 requires a Mage casting a F4 Enhanced Attribute: Willpower spell and sustaining it, sustaining foci or Quickening it all of which are comparatively easy to remove through Counterspelling or by placing a mana barrier in the way.

Even comparing it to Charisma it comes out on top as the Cha stat is really tough to Augment.

[hermit]

In terms of stupid qualities, "Too pretty to hit" takes the cake, purely mechanically (It's so damn hard to shoot elves! They're so pretty!). Bonus for inhibited nerdy sexism.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Doesn't really matter in the long run.

It's only a couple of lines of text; whopdee fucking do. It's not as if it's taking up an entire page. Besides, items or rules that people will never use is pretty normal for any RPG. Most of the extra Runner Tools back in Arsenal I had no intention of using, nor did any of my players have any interest in using them. Does that mean that whole section was a waste of paper and how-dare-that-section-was-added-and-make-me-waste-*MY*-money? No. That would be silly and melodramatic. It's there if I need it; doesn't mean that I will use it.

If you hate it so much, take your big red marker, scratch it out, and not use it.

Besides, you act as if this is the only time that an item that's a GM tool is listed in a book. Carcerands, Shadowtech, anyone? And that one took up a whole page.

Players used Carcerands too, you know... At least a lot of mine did. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ixal]

Players used Carcerands too, you know... At least a lot of mine did. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And players can use hot items, too.
Want the authorities to come down hard on someone? Get some hot weapons from a crime that guy could have potentially done and plant them.

In terms of stupid qualities, "Too pretty to hit" takes the cake, purely mechanically (It's so damn hard to shoot elves! They're so pretty!). Bonus for inhibited nerdy sexism.

Just wait till a troll gets the idea to strap the face onto his chest for additional armor/bullet deflection. Or maybe the rigger invents a new meaning of "faceplate".

[Umidori]

Why does it even have to be something they potentially could have done? Possession is nine tenths of the law, especially when the Law is Knight Errant and is more interested in making arrests than solving actual crimes.

"Who would have guessed an 83 year old parapalegic man in a coma would have turned out to be the jewel thief?"
"Uhh... what? How could he possibly have stolen it?"
"Clearly he had help! He probably hired some Shadowrunners to grab it for him! Go ahead and add 'Conspiracy' and 'Association With Terrorists' to the list of charges!"

~Umi

[Smash]

Given the amount of useful stuff that gets excluded because of the almighty "Word Count", I think it's fair to apply the standard both ways and say "Why is this taking up word count? How is this useful?" when something absolutely useless gets included.

If you have a campaign or even just a one shot in which the Runners are supposed to come across a very "Hot" MacGuffin of some sort which gets the police on their tail and fuels the plot, then all you as a GM need to do is say that's how it works. You don't need the book giving you an official "Item Designation" for it.

What next? Is CGL going to put out little sheets of stickers to afix to your GM notes? "Wait, which NPC was this again? Oh, wait, a Smiley Face sticker! That means he's an ally, not an enemy. Phew. I got worried for a second there. What else? Aha! There's a Guns sticker and a Nuyen sticker too! Now I remember! This is their Arms Merchant contact!"

~Umi

I don't know. People seemed pretty happy with Run & Gun officially telling them that they don't have to use limits if you don't want to.............