Run & Gun is Live, I'll kill you to death!!!...with the help of this book Options

[binarywraith]

Why do you assume that the writers are idiots and don't know their own metaplot?

Because the products they publish show no knowledge of their own metaplot, and plenty of evidence of idiocy? I mean, giving folks the benefit of the doubt is well and good, but this is what, the sixth sourcebook in a row with major holes and flubs?

[DeathStrobe]

Oooh... An honorable mention for an art that is much more influential than something like Carromoleg, Gun Fu, or even Karate. So not impressed.

Mechanically it'd be treated as the same as Karate. If you want it to be so insanely different from karate, then make your own martial art. It's clearly not that difficult. You name the style and then pick some maneuvers. What more do you want?

Mechanically, what would you do different from Karate?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Sadly, skillwires can't teach an MA style.

Yep, Sadly. And yet, you can get a Tutorsoft to learn them (at least you could in SR4), go figure. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Mechanically it'd be treated as the same as Karate. If you want it to be so insanely different from karate, then make your own martial art. It's clearly not that difficult. You name the style and then pick some maneuvers. What more do you want?

Mechanically, what would you do different from Karate?

Mechanically it is no where at all the same as Karate (though some sub-styles could/would be similar enough). And the fact that the Style has been around for a good lot longer than 90% of the listed styles in the book, you think it would get more of a mention than a mere byline. And yes, I will likely be the one to design the various styles and sub-styles of Kung Fu. But you know what, I should not have to. Again, one of the most prominent (and influential) styles should have had its own section.

[DeathStrobe]

Mechanically it is no where at all the same as Karate (though some sub-styles could/would be similar enough). And the fact that the Style has been around for a good lot longer than 90% of the listed styles in the book, you think it would get more of a mention than a mere byline. And yes, I will likely be the one to design the various styles and sub-styles of Kung Fu. But you know what, I should not have to. Again, one of the most prominent (and influential) styles should have had its own section.

I can't help but notice you didn't answer the question.

How is, using Shadowrun's mechanics of skill + attribute + modifier, how is Karate and Kung Fu going to be different? I assume they'll both still add + 1 or so modifier. So what difference does the flavor text make to how the mechanics are in SR5?

[Sendaz]

And this is why I subscribe to the UMAT (Unified Martial Arts Theory). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[RHat]

Mechanically it is no where at all the same as Karate (though some sub-styles could/would be similar enough). And the fact that the Style has been around for a good lot longer than 90% of the listed styles in the book, you think it would get more of a mention than a mere byline. And yes, I will likely be the one to design the various styles and sub-styles of Kung Fu. But you know what, I should not have to. Again, one of the most prominent (and influential) styles should have had its own section.

Care to highlight said differences as they're relevant to the mechanics? There is certainly some commonality to be found, I'm sure - I'm more familiar with one side of the comparison than the other, but going to history for a second, the two do descend from the same root.

Notably, though, the existing Martial Arts rules are kind of bad at handling the variance of different styles within a martial art - for example, there are some styles of karate which, to build mechanically, you'd have to combine with Jiu Jutsu to have a character know. But that's getting into a pretty serious level of detail.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Care to highlight said differences as they're relevant to the mechanics? There is certainly some commonality to be found, I'm sure - I'm more familiar with one side of the comparison than the other, but going to history for a second, the two do descend from the same root.

Notably, though, the existing Martial Arts rules are kind of bad at handling the variance of different styles within a martial art - for example, there are some styles of karate which, to build mechanically, you'd have to combine with Jiu Jutsu to have a character know. But that's getting into a pretty serious level of detail.

The level of detail you mention is exactly what I am looking for. And yes, they do a poor job of it in my opinion.
As for the Actual GAME mechanics, Still going over the Maneuvers - they cannot apparently put them all in the same place for ease of reference. And yes, there are many commonalities to be found; the flavor lies in the Differences, though. Otherwise why have styles at all?

And While the UMAT™ that Sendaz mentions is okay, I strive for a bit more detail, and definitely subscribe to MUCH more detail in the fluff. Definitely more than the throw away line that was included in the book itself.

[Curator]

So... Took an actual look at Runa and Gun. Let me get this straight. Out of all the Martial arts in the world, not ONE mention of Kung Fu (with its hundred variations of martial training) makes it into the book? NOT ONE? Are you kidding me? I am speechless once again. *sigh* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

you can't teach kung fu outside of china. it is one of the nation's treasures. if you do, don't go back to china, or let anyone know. It's why Bruce Lee was killed because he started teaching non-chinese, plus they extended their revenge and killed his son. Don't mess with the Triads.

So, since organized gangs & crime grew when the world when down in shadowrun and stayed relevant, i'm sure any school teaching or advertising the instruction of kung fu BY a chinese national; the triads would probably burn it down. and kill em.

I'm a huge martial arts fan, i haven't seen a listing of all the styles in Run and gun, but wushu is a style of kung fu.

[Larsine]

So not impressed.

Why am I not surprised?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Why am I not surprised?

Why am I not surprised that the Developers cannot put out a quality product? Hmmm, I wonder. *shrug*

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'm a huge martial arts fan, i haven't seen a listing of all the styles in Run and gun, but wushu is a style of kung fu.

Yes, I know - And yet it is relegated to a byline rather than a relevant slot of its own. And yet we get Arts that are hardly a blip in the history of Martial Arts (and even some made up crap), comparatively, and they get their own section. Disconnect Much?

[Sengir]

you can't teach kung fu outside of china. it is one of the nation's treasures. if you do, don't go back to china, or let anyone know. It's why Bruce Lee was killed because he started teaching non-chinese, plus they extended their revenge and killed his son. Don't mess with the Triads.

The amount of political conspiracy people attach to VIP deaths never seizes to amaze...

[Umidori]

The amount of political conspiracy people attach to VIP deaths never seizes to amaze...

Yeah, tell me about it.

But there's nothing célèbre and glamorous about dying from an obscure (to the public, at least) medical condition such as cerebral edema, or being killed by an undetected squib load produced by simple negligence, so some folks feel the need to reinvent reality to be more in line with the fantasies that surround the person they place on a pedestal.

~Umi

[RHat]

Hell, Bruce Lee was teaching Jeet Kun Do, not kung fu...

[Umidori]

But he was The Best At Fights™ and there's no way he could have died to something lame like a bad reaction to pain killers, instead of something super exciting that would make for a great movie!

It had to be something badass and dangerous, like the Triads! It totally makes sense that they would hate him and secretly kill him in a vast conspiracy, because the Triads totally care more about a movie star teaching martial arts than they do about pushing drugs, pimping out prostitutes, running illegal gambling rackets, and all sorts of other actually profitable crimes! They'd definitely risk a massive investigation into the death of one of the most famous men in the world for absolutely zero material gain!

/sarcasm

~Umi

[Sponge]

It had to be something badass and dangerous, like the Triads! It totally makes sense that they would hate him and secretly kill him in a vast conspiracy, because the Triads totally care more about a movie star teaching martial arts than they do about pushing drugs, pimping out prostitutes, running illegal gambling rackets, and all sorts of other actually profitable crimes! They'd definitely risk a massive investigation into the death of one of the most famous men in the world for absolutely zero material gain!

Um... we ARE talking about a game, right? A game in a setting rampant with conspiracies. I assume the "you can't teach kung fu outside of China" is in reference to the fact that it's not detailed in R&G, thus requiring some conspiracy to explain (you know, like "we wanted to rebalance the price of cyberware" requiring some contrived "all nanites blew up everywhere" conspiracy), and not a serious real-world comment.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Um... we ARE talking about a game, right? A game in a setting rampant with conspiracies. I assume the "you can't teach kung fu outside of China" is in reference to the fact that it's not detailed in R&G, thus requiring some conspiracy to explain (you know, like "we wanted to rebalance the price of cyberware" requiring some contrived "all nanites blew up everywhere" conspiracy), and not a serious real-world comment.

And if they are going to highlight that explanation as a possibility, make sure it is detailed somewhere, because when you are playing IN CHINA, you SHOULD BE ABLE TO LEARN KUNG FU. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
The fact that is it glossed over shows they did not even care THAT much (or someone does not consider King Fu to be of any significant importance). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[Ixal]

Ok, going from Wikipedia here for a moment "Kung Fu" originally meant reaching a high skill in something, often but not limited to martial arts, while Wushu being the actual martial arts practiced in China. SO what exactly is the problem?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Ok, going from Wikipedia here for a moment "Kung Fu" originally meant reaching a high skill in something, often but not limited to martial arts, while Wushu being the actual martial arts practiced in China. SO what exactly is the problem?

It is only mentioned as an afterthought. Should have its own section. Considering that there are over a hundred or so sub-styles, you would think that it would hold more importance than a Martial Art that is complete fantasy in origins, but has its own section. Hell, it has had FAR more influence than even some "Modern" martial arts, which ALSO have their own sections. *shrug*

As for the veracity of Wikipidia - Hopefully you don't trust everything you read there as infallible and inviolate. It is a good place to start, but you should always dig deeper. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[Ixal]

It is only mentioned as an afterthought. Should have its own section. Considering that there are over a hundred or so sub-styles, you would think that it would hold more importance than a Martial Art that is complete fantasy in origins, but has its own section. Hell, it has had FAR more influence than even some "Modern" martial arts, which ALSO have their own sections. *shrug*

As for the veracity of Wikipidia - Hopefully you don't trust everything you read there as infallible and inviolate. It is a good place to start, but you should always dig deeper. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

As I only have glancing interest in this whole discussion, I figured that any major flaw in that Wikipedia sentence would be corrected here.
So, the only problem is that you want Kung Fu/Wushu mentioned over an other martial arts like Karate? Thats all?

And using Wikipedia again, Wushu is now only 60 years old. It does have several ancient and no doubt important sub styles, but as a whole I don't see why it would be all that important except to Hollywood.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

As I only have glancing interest in this whole discussion, I figured that any major flaw in that Wikipedia sentence would be corrected here.
So, the only problem is that you want Kung Fu/Wushu mentioned over an other martial arts like Karate? Thats all?

The issue is that they mostly ignored it (except as an afterthought, at best) and when it was brought up, was dismissed out of hand as irrelevant. Just more of the same, in fact. So, The way it was treated and then the way it was diminished when addressed irritates me a bit. That is all.

In the end, I will likely work stuff up for it in my spare time (as well as many of its sub-styles - Fluff Matters, at least to me). Though I do maintain that I should not have to do so for something that has the history that Kung-Fu (Wushu) has.

[Sengir]

Um... we ARE talking about a game, right? A game in a setting rampant with conspiracies. I assume the "you can't teach kung fu outside of China" is in reference to the fact that it's not detailed in R&G, thus requiring some conspiracy to explain (you know, like "we wanted to rebalance the price of cyberware" requiring some contrived "all nanites blew up everywhere" conspiracy), and not a serious real-world comment.

I sounded pretty much like he was talking about the real world...in-universe, the reply would be "which China?" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Curator]

ok that was just a theory. find another actor who died like brandon lee. any. his dad died age 32 in the prime of his life INN hong kong, 1973 where he didn't live. my bad for de-railing. he invented jeet kune do, he learned kung-fu.

kung fu is a general term. it's chinese boxing basically, the default. wushu is a more practiced fighter. there are many many styles of kung fu. they all mostly blend though since china wasn't united until 200bc but martial arts was practiced before.

karate & judo is Japanese. tae kwon do is korean. tang soo do is korean meets chinese styles. muay thai is from thailand. jiu jitsu is new japanese technique which spread to brazil in the late 1800's. europe wrestled and boxed. and russians punched each other in the head. and now we have mma! there's some history

besides china doesn't exist in shadowrun. so maybe kung fu doesn't exist! who knows what these tricky writers are doing!! just learn tae kwon do do it

[Sengir]

find another actor who died like brandon lee.

As we just discussed in the other R&G thread, mix-ups between live rounds/weapons and blanks, training dummies, or toys are a thing that happens. Hence the fancy muzzle plug on rifles during exercises with blanks, they don't just help the weapon cycle, but also stop accidentally loaded live round (or at least slow them a bit...).

his dad died age 32 in the prime of his life INN hong kong, 1973 where he didn't live.

People who travel the world might get ill or or even die abroad. News at 11...

besides china doesn't exist in shadowrun.

Well, I expect a situation like China and Taiwan today: Everybody is the one real China