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> Cyberware costs for rodents
FuelDrop
post Apr 10 2014, 10:13 AM
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I want to get into the illegal devil rat fighting scene, and to get an edge I want to give my devil rat titanium bone lacing and orthoskin, with options towards implanting a cyberweapon. Do I use the listed prices or what?

PS: Not actually looking at this in game yet, but I so want to do it at some point. Maybe train up a swarm of cybered up devil rats...
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Xystophoroi
post Apr 10 2014, 10:30 AM
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QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Apr 10 2014, 10:13 AM) *
I want to get into the illegal devil rat fighting scene, and to get an edge I want to give my devil rat titanium bone lacing and orthoskin, with options towards implanting a cyberweapon. Do I use the listed prices or what?

PS: Not actually looking at this in game yet, but I so want to do it at some point. Maybe train up a swarm of cybered up devil rats...


In SR5 gear costs for Trolls and Dwarfs is not affected by their size even though lifestyle costs are so that implies the raw material isn't the primary cost so much as the technical skill required to develop and produce the 'ware.

I.e.: the additional cost of the metal for a Troll cyberarm is negligible and you're really paying for the research team spending 4 years creating the software, chipsets, hardware designs, etc.

So...I think it's full price (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

You want to have a Y450k rat don't you?
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Medicineman
post Apr 10 2014, 10:36 AM
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I wonder which Mega produces Cyberware for Devil Rats...
there is no Market for such 'ware.
For Attackdogs maybe but at an extremely high cost for there is such a slim Market...

with a slim Dance
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Sendaz
post Apr 10 2014, 10:48 AM
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I would say you are looking at a big price hike as this would have to be custom built for the task so probably Beta/Delta cost hike just for basic stuff.

Also to date, most critters don't respond well mentally to this, though in a pit fight this may be a bonus if the critter is a bit psycho, but handling in the down time will be problematic.

And spirits help you if it chews it way out of whatever you are using as a cage. (could be an adventure in itself to recover though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

Also if this is what I think you are wanting to do, if it's a Triad game, Don't.

They will probably have a mage nastrally perceiving or spirit watching for shenanigans like spell boosting and if they see loads of dark patches (cyberware or other essence damage) in the rats they will alert someone.
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Umidori
post Apr 10 2014, 11:33 AM
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Ben FuelDrop, I just wanna say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening?

"Bio-drones." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

~Umi
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Stahlseele
post Apr 10 2014, 11:44 AM
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@Xystophoroi
You DID see that the errata actually put ware under lifestyle-cost and as such applies the Troll-Size to the ware cost?
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Jaid
post Apr 10 2014, 01:00 PM
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the 4th edition rules required deltaware for most critters, and especially paracritters, if it was available at all.

what the 5th edition rules will say is anyone's guess.
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Curator
post Apr 10 2014, 01:25 PM
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bahahahahahahahaha
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FuelDrop
post Apr 10 2014, 02:00 PM
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Hmmm... Spurs or Razor Claws? or maybe both?
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nezumi
post Apr 10 2014, 02:36 PM
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I would also agree. I'm pretty sure the majority of the cost isn't for the wires, steel, and titanium. It's for infrastructure necessary to manufacture the equipment, and installation costs.

Since it needs to be custom-sized to rats, that means you're using the beta-ware rules. I don't think deltaware is appropriate; that's cutting edge technology.

I'd also argue you may find the effects and costs don't translate perfectly. Titanium lacing may be more effective when applied to a light-boned rat, while rats don't know how to properly utilize wired reflexes, so they won't get the same benefit.
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Stahlseele
post Apr 10 2014, 02:39 PM
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QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Apr 10 2014, 03:00 PM) *
Hmmm... Spurs or Razor Claws? or maybe both?

poison gland, poison release through spit, bite wounds will incapacitate any enemy.
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Sendaz
post Apr 10 2014, 03:08 PM
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You are missing the obvious add-on: Monofilament Tail so that the tip can be whipped out and a short length of Mono wire revealed to slice and dice.
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Jaid
post Apr 10 2014, 04:53 PM
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it's deltaware because everything has to be custom made for the critter, not because it's so advanced.

basically, they don't have enough data to reliably design implants that will not instantly kill your subjects. and while most people probably could care less about devil rats being killed, they probably care quite a bit about losing the investment of the surgery and the training time (for obvious reasons, you don't install them in a juvenile, and if you want the critter to be trained you start training from birth).

on the other hand, some crazy hackjob 'ware that kills 99 out of every 100 devil rats and turns the remaining one into an uncontrollable bloodthirsty murderous fiend is probably less of an issue for a devil rat pit fighting ring than it would be for, say, corporate security needs where you don't want it to try and murder everything it sees. so i could certainly see options below deltaware being a theoretical possibility for those purposes.

(obviously handling said crazed devil rat is a concern as well, but i expect most handling would be done while the rat is unconscious, since i don't anticipate any training being done once the implants are in. either that, or an insanely heavily armoured drone is the handler, since armour can reduce it's attacks to stun and stun does nothing to vehicles).
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Mantis
post Apr 10 2014, 07:36 PM
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Actually in 4th ed a biodrone could use any bioware or cyberware a character could and if it was something with a short lifespan, the cost was 20% less since they could use rapid prototyping on the critters (like say, a devil rat). Also, and most important from an expense standpoint, it did not need to be deltaware. Check Augmentation pg 152
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BishopMcQ
post Apr 10 2014, 07:43 PM
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Running Wild, P 24-31 gave a huge update on biodrones versus what Augmentation laid out.
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Jaid
post Apr 10 2014, 07:58 PM
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and let's have a look at page 151:

"The use of paranormal animals as biodrones has yet to be
perfected."

"So far, the only success stories have
involved the simplest of biodrone control implants, the orientation
destabilizer."

and page 152 as well, for that matter:

"The current generation of biodrones are almost exclusively
models using augmented normal animal species. It is widely rumored,
however, that several megacorps are already developing
genetically-tailored hybrids and unique organisms to serve as
templates for biodrone implantation."

(bolding added for emphasis. note that the exceptions are not paranimals, they are genetically modified normal animals)

"The gamemaster has  final say on whether a specific
implant—be it cyber-, bio-, or nanoware—is available."

so even on the stuff that *is* being researched, not everything is available.

furthermore, the 20% cost was for genetic augmentations on stuff with short life spans. not everything. just genetic.

and as has been mentioned, running wild has further updates. pages 26-27 in particular deal with how it tends to cause insanities, which can be minimized but not removed, discusses the fact that some are too complex for critters to use, discusses that paranimals are at best very rarely augmented at all (not to mention won't be compatible with the cheapest ways of augmenting them, since you can't vat-grow paranimals).
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Stahlseele
post Apr 10 2014, 08:42 PM
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where does the stirrup interface fit into that?
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Mantis
post Apr 10 2014, 10:52 PM
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And yet, still not Deltaware. I know awakened critters aren't generally augmented and that the critters getting the 20% discount are generally of the short life span variety. Next time I'll just leave it to the no deltaware part with some page numbers and let interested parties do their own reading.
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Umidori
post Apr 11 2014, 01:20 AM
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Why would a critter being Awakened make any real difference?

Mechanically speaking, implanting 'ware into an Awakened critter would of course impact its Magic rating and any related powers, but their magical nature alone shouldn't really be an impediment to implantation. Sure, a Hellhound with gutted Essence isn't as inherently dangerous as one with full Magical capabilities, but that'd be the tradeoff of giving it cyberware.

~Umi
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Jaid
post Apr 11 2014, 01:34 AM
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seriously, read the material.

it's not just "20% off", it's only for one specific type of augmentation.

and actually, if you carry on reading in running wild, for awakened critters it is deltaware.
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FuelDrop
post Apr 11 2014, 01:41 AM
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Damn it, why can't the megacorps manufacture standardized illegal cyberware for awakened rodents?!? it's such a huge market!

Yeah, I'm thinking this idea isn't happening any time soon.
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Umidori
post Apr 11 2014, 04:06 AM
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That's okay.

It can go on the shelf next to the box full of drone-to-Mech conversion attempts that have piled up over the years, and the lead lined crate full of all my attempts at building a T'skrang without twisting the rules' arms until they cry "Uncle!". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

~Umi
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Stahlseele
post Apr 12 2014, 05:41 PM
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T'skrang is easy with the changeling stuff, isn't it?
And "Mech" . . if you include a WH40K Dreadnought into this category, it works too.
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Erik Baird
post Apr 12 2014, 06:03 PM
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A 40K dreadnought should be easy. Is it written that replacement limbs have to be the proper natural size and form ("Kid Stealth" legs beg otherwise)? If nothing else, put a rigger in a cocoon in a walker.
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Stahlseele
post Apr 12 2014, 06:50 PM
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The SR4 Troll-Size Exoskeleton. Armor it up, done.
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