Dual wield pistols Options

[AlDaRoN]

I'm trying to figure who dual wielding works in 5th edition (if it works at all).

Can I shoot the two guns at the same target? Does duelwielding have any benefit or should just drop ambidexterity and just carry the other gun to look cool?

I've read a lot of topics and it's not clear at all what you can and can't do.

[Curator]

my char only dual wields pistols & swords so i kinda have an idea but i'm sure there's more to it then i know

using an off hand weapon has a -2 dice roll modifier unless you have the ambidextrous quality

to use both weapons in 1 attack, you must use the free action of multiple attacks free action, then attacking either 2 targets with each weapon or the same target with both. calculate your dice pool with all modifiers then split it, if uneven give the higher point to your dominant hand. don't forget recoil for 2 hands is hard if it starts stacking.

since it sucks up your free action i wouldn't do it every attack, but still using it variably to put the surprise on 2 goons at once or trying to stack your weapons damage if your modifiers are exceptionally good at the moment

plus i'm using a quality from the assassins primer that drops my called shots from -4 to -2 on the disadvantage that i must do it every turn that i think it's better to use my stronger weapon for precise damages instead of protection or any other applicable reason. i'm unsure how called shots works with dual weapons though, considering if your calling the shot on the same target with both weapons or trying to split the pool then apply the modifier to shoot one target. also idk how physical limits effect it, i guess they are seperate actions so they hits are capped for each weapon instead? idk

cause i mean, with an agility of 7 + swords skill 6 plus specialization with swords of +2, equals 15 so with any superior position or surprise attack with a strength of 5 that could be 11points of damage for 2 characters or 20 for one, for a well placed attack. i'd use it really as a defense way of fighting though. i'm hoping run & gun will have more info for more specializations to this style

[psychophipps]

To be honest, it just looks cool. You'll be splitting your pools between shots and/or targets so you're basically shooting twice as much ammo with less accuracy for each shot. There is a reason why you don't see the pros two-gunning and it's not because they haven't tried it.

[Jaid]

actually, it's probably the only way to reliably kill one goon per IP with pistols and small melee weapons in SR5 (ie not in the real world). there's a pretty good reason to consider dual-wielding if you've got the dicepool to actually hit twice.

granted, that's a pretty big if. assuming you're facing reasonably average uncybered opponents, their dodge pool is probably 6 even before full defence, so you'd probably want at least 16-18 dice before you even consider dual-wielding.

(well, unless you dual-wield full auto weapons, but that's gonna burn through ammo pretty fast).

[BlackJaw]

(well, unless you dual-wield full auto weapons, but that's gonna burn through ammo pretty fast).

Instead of autofire, go with shotgun type weapons. Roomsweepers full of shot on medium spread would work nicely, and you're not using as much ammo as autofire.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Instead of autofire, go with shotgun type weapons. Roomsweepers full of shot on medium spread would work nicely, and you're not using as much ammo as autofire.

Indeed... Of course, you don't have to split pools at that point either, since you can hit multiple opponents... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Jaid]

Indeed... Of course, you don't have to split pools at that point either, since you can hit multiple opponents... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

the objective in this case is not to hit multiple opponents, it's to hit the same opponent twice to take out one target in a single IP. something which would be quite difficult with a single pistol shot, to say the least.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

the objective in this case is not to hit multiple opponents, it's to hit the same opponent twice to take out one target in a single IP. something which would be quite difficult with a single pistol shot, to say the least.

Ooops... Yeah, there is that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[ProfGast]

It's also the way to fire off two shots in 1 IP using one-handed Single Shot Weapons. Like Ruger Superwarhawks.

I suppose the alternative is to drop-and-quickdraw but that just sounds silly.

[Jaid]

you can't attack twice in SR5 by attacking, dropping your guns, and attacking again. it's against the rules.

[ProfGast]

I meant drawing a different gun. I don't see it anywhere in the rules that bar that.
1 Initiative Pass = 2 Simple + 1 Free or 1 Complex + 1 Free. See as follows:

Ruger 1: Fire Single Shot Weapon = Simple Action.
Ruger 1: Drop Weapon (not put down DROP) = Free Action
Ruger 2: Quickdraw = Simple action, draw and fire.

OR you could just get ambidexterity and go:
Ruger Right: Fire Single Shot Weapon = Simple Action
Ruger Left : Fire Single Shot Weapon = Simple Action

[FuelDrop]

I meant drawing a different gun. I don't see it anywhere in the rules that bar that.
1 Initiative Pass = 2 Simple + 1 Free or 1 Complex + 1 Free. See as follows:

Ruger 1: Fire Single Shot Weapon = Simple Action.
Ruger 1: Drop Weapon (not put down DROP) = Free Action
Ruger 2: Quickdraw = Simple action, draw and fire.

OR you could just get ambidexterity and go:
Ruger Right: Fire Single Shot Weapon = Simple Action
Ruger Left : Fire Single Shot Weapon = Simple Action

only one attack action per action phase in 5th.

[tjn]

I meant drawing a different gun. I don't see it anywhere in the rules that bar that.

The basic rule is the characters may only attack "once" during an action phase. There was some kerfuffle over it, especially as what exactly constitutes an "attack." Does throwing a rock at a door to get a guard's attention count? If not, does changing that rock into a grenade magically turn that action into an attack? Bull's response was basically "you'll know it when you see it."

The specific rule you're looking for is on Page 164 and 165:

(164 - Defining a Simple Action) A Simple Action is one step more complicated than a Free Action and requires more concentration to attempt. During his Action Phase, a character may take two Simple Actions, though only one can be an attack action.

(165 - Firing a weapon as a Simple Action) A character may fire a readied firearm in Semi-Automatic, Single-Shot, Burst-Fire, or Fully-Auto mode via a Simple Action (see Firearms, p. 424) but may not take any other attack actions in the same Action Phase. If a character has one weapon in each hand, he may fire once with each weapon by adding a Multiple Attacks Free Action (see Multiple Attacks, p. 96); the offhand modifier applies (see Attacking Using Off-Hand Weapon, p. 178). When taken as Simple Actions, Burst Fire fires 3 bullets, while Full-Auto fires 6 bullets.

So no, you can't shoot one pistol with one simple action, drop the gun for a free, and quickdraw and fire a second gun with a second free action any more than you can fire that original gun twice, with two separate actions or fire two readied weapons, once in each hand, using a simple action for each hand. Note: there's nothing on page 96 about Multiple Attacks, only a sample character's gear list.

What this thread is about, is specifically the Multiple Attacks action, found on page 196:

Characters sometimes want to really put on the hurting in a single Action Phase and can choose to attack more than once in a single Action Phase by using the Multiple Attacks Free Action. This action represents both attacking multiple times from a single melee weapon and attacking with two different weapons (firearms or melee). The attacker’s dice pool is calculated with all modifiers (Wound, Environmental, Situational, and the full recoil of all attacks if it’s a ranged attack) and then split as evenly as possible between all attacks, and each attack is handled separately. (Keep in mind as the dice pool gets smaller the chances of a glitch rise.) Edge spent on this test adds into the pool before it is divided. The total number of attacks you can make in a single Action Phase is limited to one-half the attacker’s Combat Skill.

On page 164, the Multiple Attacks Free action is defined as: A character may use a Free Action to attack multiple targets in a single action (see Multiple Attacks, p. 196) by splitting their dice pool. This action must be combined with a Fire Weapon Action, Throw Weapon Action, Melee Attack Action, Reckless Spellcasting, or Cast Spell Action.

It looks as if it's slightly unclear, but a strict reading would mean that if the attack action was a Simple Action, the character's left with another Simple Action to do whatever that's not an attack, because due to the wording on simple actions, both shots fired from the Multiple Attacks would take place under the first Simple Action. Also remains consistent with a Complex Action as an attack (which is addressed under the firing a weapon as a Complex Action on page 167), as one can't normally take two complex actions, but I could see how some would rather it take two simple actions to attack twice, as it was in previous editions.

Or, if you wanted to get crazy, use the suppressive fire rules with a full auto gun in each hand in order to force everyone in the field of fire to roll twice to get away. Shockingly, a Rambo tactic actually makes a little bit of mechanical sense.

[Curator]

only one attack action per action phase in 5th.

pg 196 under multiple attacks
the total number of attacks you can make in a single action phase is limited to one half the attackers combat skill

it says above to split the pool for the total number of attacks, plus using edge is calculated before splitting. also says be fearful of higher chances of glitches

seems only useful for knocking out a group of either surprised, injured, or weakly armored peeps

[ProfGast]

My mistake, I missed the rule that disallows more than one attack per pass without splitting pools.

[Curator]

the only thing i imagine it is that you're basically firing simultaneously a single shot from 2 chambers so it's still faster then any time longer expelling more then 1 bullet,

trying to work called shots with multiple attacks is pointless right? may as well just take the time with your better weapon

[Curator]

My mistake, I missed the rule that disallows more than one attack per pass without splitting pools.

it's cool i never even played this game before, i just dreaming of slashing throats and shooting people in under 3 seconds. with a rating 2 deltaware synaptic booster and a retractable blade in my foot

alas

[Cain]

Just to be clear: there's no penalty for holding a pistol/second weapon on your off hand, only for using it to attack, correct?

[SpellBinder]

Yes, you suffer a -2 DP penalty to your Intimidation roll for wielding a weapon in your off hand in a threateningly manner. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Seriously, for those that fail to catch the joke, there isn't a penalty for just holding something (handguns included) in your off hand that I'm aware of.

[Smash]

The rules for this are clear but also contradict themselves.

Without quoting it all again (there are other threads where it is discussed) the rules suggest that you can not multi-attack the same target and that certain weapon types (I can't remember exactly which ones) can't multi-attack at all........ except under multi-attack it says you can.

[Cain]

The rules for this are clear but also contradict themselves.

Without quoting it all again (there are other threads where it is discussed) the rules suggest that you can not multi-attack the same target and that certain weapon types (I can't remember exactly which ones) can't multi-attack at all........ except under multi-attack it says you can.

Well, from following the Dumpshock threads, apparently you cannot use the same full auto weapon to attack the same person twice, no matter if you multiattack or whatever else. The multi-attack rules certainly suggest that ou should be attacking multiple targets. but it doesn't clearly say one way or the other.