Building a mage in 5E, What's the conventional wisdom? Options

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Ugh, I blame chronic pain and tiredness. You're right, that spread needs a rework. I defend the stats at 1, though - the idea was someone who's physically unimpressive but who makes up for it with magical power, making him desirable to a team even if not especially well liked. Also, Initiative is less of a problem for a mage specializing in Detection spells.

Attributes at 1 is far from Physically Unimpressive (with 4 stats at 1, it is crippling bordering on useless), in my opinion. 2's would suffice, as you are still 1/3 below average at that point, if you are going for the physically unimpressive bit.

Why would initiative be less a problem for the Detection Specialist? Initiative is ALWAYS something that matters. the more of it you have, the better you will survive the shadows. Of course drugs can help with that, but that is a long wait for a train don't come.

[Lobo0705]

Might I add that Insomnia is really bad when you are a mage (and will be taking stun damage from spell casting, let alone from the enemy) and your dice pool is an 8? (assuming that you leave your Willpower at 6)

Getting 4 hits on 8 dice is not something you want to be banking on.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Might I add that Insomnia is really bad when you are a mage (and will be taking stun damage from spell casting, let alone from the enemy) and your dice pool is an 8? (assuming that you leave your Willpower at 6)

Getting 4 hits on 8 dice is not something you want to be banking on.

At that point your are banking that your Insomnia is actually going to kick in and only get half your rolls (4 instead of (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) . That is what I am doing now with my current character. Her nightmares and flashbacks cause such mental trauma that she really has issues sleeping, resulting in a roll every 2 hours rather than the normal every 1 hour (same DP of (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) .

[Tyro]

Might I add that Insomnia is really bad when you are a mage (and will be taking stun damage from spell casting, let alone from the enemy) and your dice pool is an 8? (assuming that you leave your Willpower at 6)

Getting 4 hits on 8 dice is not something you want to be banking on.

I think it will depend on where my Drain attributes are at. If I go dwarf with 7/5 Will/Log I'll probably go insomniac, esp. since I'll be avoiding higher Drain spells for the most part - utility mage, not Karl Kombatmage. If I go human with fewer drain dice, I'll probably swap out for a different Negative Quality.

[Tyro]

Okay, take 2:

[ Spoiler ]

Magic B (Magic 5, two R4 magic skills, 7 spells)
Attributes C (16)
Skills D (22/0)
Race E (Human w/ 1 special point)
Resources E (6k)

Snake magicians fight only to protect themselves and others. They are obsessed with learning secrets and take great risks in order to do so. They trade their knowledge to others for whatever they can get in exchange.
+2 to Arcana tests, +2 to Detection spells/rituals/preparations. You must succeed in a Charisma + Willpower (3) Test to avoid pursuing secrets or knowledge that few people know about when you receive hints of its existence.

+25 karma
-05 (Snake mentor)
-07 (Spirit Affinity: Man)
+04 (Novacoke addiction, mild)
+09 (Zen addiction, moderate)
+08 (Social Stress: Perceived threats to his autonomy)
+03 (Biased Prejudice: non-Hermetic magicians)
=37
-10 (Reaction 1 -> 2)
-10 (Strength 1 -> 2)
-10 (Agility 1 -> 2)
-05 (Influence spell)
=02

B 3
A 2
R 2
S 2
W 6
L 5
I 5
C 2
E 2
M 5

Spellcasting 4 spec Illusion
Conjuring 4 spec Man
Binding 4 spec Man
Ritual Spellcasting 1
Counterspelling 2
Assensing 4
Arcana 2
Running 1
Computer 1
Etiquette 1
Negotiation 1
Perception 2
Longarms 1 spec Shotguns

Stunball

Analyze Truth
Detect Guns
Mind Probe

Heal
Mass Confusion
Phantasm

Influence

[Lobo0705]

You have 24 points worth of skills and Specializations, so you have to drop 2 skill points there.

Other than that, mechanically it is legal, you have some interesting choices of skills - curious to see the background.

[Tyro]

You have 24 points worth of skills and Specializations, so you have to drop 2 skill points there.

Other than that, mechanically it is legal, you have some interesting choices of skills - curious to see the background.

I'm open to suggestions re: background specifics. As suggested by his Qualities, he doesn't like being tied down, big problem with authority. He's researching the Unified Magical Theory. Maybe he was a researcher at a public college that got bought out by the corps. He's in the Puyallup Barrens now, living in a compound with a bunch of steampunk-obsessed scroungers and a technomancer tribe.

Any suggestions on the skills?

[tjn]

As suggested by his Qualities, he doesn't like being tied down, big problem with authority.

With Social Stress and an Etiquette of 1, you have a 46% chance of causing at least a glitch in any scene where someone's telling your character what to do. And if you don't get at least one hit, it's automatically upgraded to a critical glitch. Now my math might be wrong, but I'm getting a rough 1/5 chance of a critical glitch in every scene where someone's telling your character what to do. Like say, a Johnson. If a teammate blew up at the guy paying me once out of every five runs, there'd be serious questions as to his worth.

If the GM is going with a slightly pink mohawk group of fuck ups, it'll fit right in. If your teammates actually like getting paid for the work they do... they might have a problem.

At first, I liked the idea of the flaw, but the characters for whom this flaw is somewhat archetypal, they almost get crippled by the flaw. Whereas faces, those where it's somewhat out of character to have this kind of flaw, it's almost free karma because the flaw has so little impact. For example, my face/mage would go from 6 ones needed to glitch to 5, on 11 dice, and a critical glitch would be almost unheard of.

This is something of a continuing problem for SR's Flaws. The vast majority of them can really kill a character concept, even if (or more often, especially if!) that flaw fits with the archetype the character is following. Prejudiced basically turns any social encounter with someone in the specific class into a no-win situation. Uncouth, for 14 karma, basically makes the character completely unplayable in any game remotely mirrorshades, but is almost free karma in an over the top pink mohawk game. Uneducated, for the awesome amount of 8 karma, somehow makes the character completely unable to use a computer, as in Scotty talking to the mouse level of ignorance, in a setting basically surrounded by computers 24/7. And then there's flaws no one takes like Codeblock which actively hinders the character's primary role but you can't take these flaws unless it specifically applies to your character's primary role.

There's a reason certain flaws, like Code of Honor, Allergy, or Weak Immune System come up over and over and over. Because the majority of flaws aren't worth the karma to take them, and some of them are actively trap options. But since those 25 extra karma can go really far during character creation, it's fairly important to load up on those few flaws that don't outright mechanically mangle your character. Hell I wouldn't be surprised that in Missions (which outlaws some flaws that are hard to keep track of in a convention setting), a good 95% of the runners have an allergy to some rare substance or another.

Any suggestions on the skills?

This is something based upon each table's expectations, so it's variable depending on perspective. My "requirements" for every runner are at least a one in: Running, Sneaking, Palming, Gymnastics, Etiquette and Con. They also need a decent Perception and some sort of combat skill at a decent rating, which depends on their role. For a mage that's Spellcasting, but Counterspelling and Summoning are also mandatory, and I usually peg them as high as I can get them. Assensing comes next, followed by Binding, as skill points allow. Beyond that is up to character concept. Hermetics have less of a point to Binding since their Cha is usually fairly low. It's useful to have a spirit on call in emergencies, but especially if you've got Spirit Affinity, you can use it to develop a specific bond to a specific spirit as a role playing opportunity, and as such they probably won't be rolling edge against you, and if you need a high force spirit, you've got regular summoning for a disposable spirit for that specific run.

If I was making this character, I'd have Spellcasting, Counterspelling, and Summoning at 6 each, Assensing and Perception at 4 each, and the rest of the above at 1 each by spending the necessary karma to get each at one. But that's just me.

[Tyro]

With Social Stress and an Etiquette of 1, you have a 46% chance of causing at least a glitch in any scene where someone's telling your character what to do. And if you don't get at least one hit, it's automatically upgraded to a critical glitch. Now my math might be wrong, but I'm getting a rough 1/5 chance of a critical glitch in every scene where someone's telling your character what to do. Like say, a Johnson. If a teammate blew up at the guy paying me once out of every five runs, there'd be serious questions as to his worth.

If the GM is going with a slightly pink mohawk group of fuck ups, it'll fit right in. If your teammates actually like getting paid for the work they do... they might have a problem.

It's a persistent setting game, multithreaded PbP. The thread I'll be involved in is less "runner team" and more "individuals dicking around in the Barrens" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

This is something of a continuing problem for SR's Flaws. The vast majority of them can really kill a character concept, even if (or more often, especially if!) that flaw fits with the archetype the character is following. Prejudiced basically turns any social encounter with someone in the specific class into a no-win situation. Uncouth, for 14 karma, basically makes the character completely unplayable in any game remotely mirrorshades, but is almost free karma in an over the top pink mohawk game. Uneducated, for the awesome amount of 8 karma, somehow makes the character completely unable to use a computer, as in Scotty talking to the mouse level of ignorance, in a setting basically surrounded by computers 24/7. And then there's flaws no one takes like Codeblock which actively hinders the character's primary role but you can't take these flaws unless it specifically applies to your character's primary role.

I like Codeblock for Characters (I often use it for Hackers/Technomancers), and for a society that is "surrounded by computers 24/7" Codeblock is an awesome flaw (especially if you take it for common tasks that anyone does).

[Shinobi Killfist]

I'm open to suggestions re: background specifics. As suggested by his Qualities, he doesn't like being tied down, big problem with authority. He's researching the Unified Magical Theory. Maybe he was a researcher at a public college that got bought out by the corps. He's in the Puyallup Barrens now, living in a compound with a bunch of steampunk-obsessed scroungers and a technomancer tribe.

Any suggestions on the skills?

As a researcher I'd try to get Arcana a bit higher in skill. I'd be tempted to try and shave 2 points from attributes so you could take C skills. But I'd shave other skills a bit if necessary, to get it to at least 4. If there were one skill i'd take to 6 for a researcher who wants to research magic on his own outside the structure of corps etc it would be arcana. And most of my knowledge skills would be around this.

Parazoology
Parabotony?
Magic SOTA
Magic History
Magical Threats
Artifacts
etc

[Tyro]

What uses are there for Arcana in 5e? I'm pretty sure I know most/all of them, but I want to be sure I'm well versed.

His research is mostly academic, testing ideas in re: the basic laws of magic; I doubt he'll need more than 4 Arcana + spec, MAYBE 5, and a boatload of Knowledge skills. He'll probably have those at 5, maybe with specs of their own. Don't forget the +2 on Arcana tests he gets from his mentor.

[RHat]

I like Codeblock for Characters (I often use it for Hackers/Technomancers), and for a society that is "surrounded by computers 24/7" Codeblock is an awesome flaw (especially if you take it for common tasks that anyone does).

For example, "can't Google shit" is kind of a noteworthy flaw.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

For example, "can't Google shit" is kind of a noteworthy flaw.

Sadly, even when I can Google, sometimes I just so epically fail at it that it is embarrassing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Shinobi Killfist]

What uses are there for Arcana in 5e? I'm pretty sure I know most/all of them, but I want to be sure I'm well versed.

His research is mostly academic, testing ideas in re: the basic laws of magic; I doubt he'll need more than 4 Arcana + spec, MAYBE 5, and a boatload of Knowledge skills. He'll probably have those at 5, maybe with specs of their own. Don't forget the +2 on Arcana tests he gets from his mentor.

well right now admittedly there aren't tons of arcana uses. Though spell design will come into play once the magic book is out. But for me the dice pool is less important in many instances for a character concept than the skill rating. 2 is
Rating 2: Novice You’re a hobbyist, but not an enthusiast.
4 is
Rating 4: Proficient
You’re comfortable with what you do and perform well under
normal pressures. Professional level for most jobs.
6 is
Rating 6: Professional
You could easily sell your skills on the open market.

To me your concept says more than a hobbyist.

[Jaid]

arcana is used for initiating now, is it not?

[Shemhazai]

[ Spoiler ]

Skills B (36/5)
Magic C (Magic 3, 5 spells)
Race D (Human w/ 3 special point)
Attributes E (12)
Resources E (6k)

Snake magicians fight only to protect themselves and others. They are obsessed with learning secrets and take great risks in order to do so. They trade their knowledge to others for whatever they can get in exchange.
+2 to Arcana tests, +2 to Detection spells/rituals/preparations. You must succeed in a Charisma + Willpower (3) Test to avoid pursuing secrets or knowledge that few people know about when you receive hints of its existence.

+25 karma
-05 (Snake mentor)
-07 (Spirit Affinity: Man)
+04 (Novacoke addiction, mild)
+09 (Zen addiction, moderate)
+08 (Social Stress: Perceived threats to his autonomy)
+03 (Biased Prejudice: non-Hermetic magicians)
=37
-10 (Reaction 1 -> 2)
-10 (Strength 1 -> 2)
-10 (Agility 1 -> 2)
-05 (Influence spell)
=02

B 1
A 2
R 2
S 2
W 6
L 5
I 4
C 1
E 2
M 6

Spellcasting 5
Ritual Spellcasting 5
Counterspelling 5
36 more in skills

Influence
5 spells/rituals of your choice

Remember, snake magicians take great risks. For just four attribute points (in this case 60 karma, 3 contacts karma, and 2 language/knowledge karma), two level 4 skills (40 karma), and two spells (10 karma), grand total 115, you get a point of Magic (30 karma), Sorcery skill group at rating 5 (62 karma), and loads more skills to hopefully keep you alive. Eventually bump all your 1s to 2s and quicken Improve Attribute spells for 1 karma each (plus the cost of learning the spells). Is your street level campaign going to have magical defenses that will be a match for you? If so, just recast and quicken again for 1 karma. You can also buff your street level teammates when they need it. If your gm won't allow minmaxing, see if he'll allow you to spread out your intuition in order for you to keep a high drain pool. Bonus points if you can spend 13 more karma on positive attributes. Do you really need that Influence spell right away? Or maybe you could get away with one more Attribute at 1. You'll be more help to your team if you're a decent magician than if you have a bunch of rating 2 attributes to go with rating 1 and 2 skills.