Raising magic on a char. with Astral Hazing Options

[Machiavelli]

I just created a new char. that is awakened (adept) and suffers from astral hazing. He has got 2 essence points of bioware and an adjusted magic attribute of 1. So if i want to raise the magic attribute, does it work if his current magic attribute is actually 0 (or -3 if you want to say it that way?).

[Neraph]

Raising your Magic takes into account what it actually is. In the case of your character, your natural max is 4 because of bio, and it is adjusted to a 0 because of Hazing. It would cost the same as raising a 4 to a 5, including necessitating an Initiation beforehand, because your actual Magic rating is a 4, not a 0. The Hazing simply is a modifier to your score.

At least, this is for 4th Ed. Which version are you using?

[Machiavelli]

Sr4

[Glyph]

Unless I'm reading it wrong, he bought a Magic of 3, got two points of bioware, and has a Magic of 1, which is then affected by background count. So he can raise it from 1 to 2, 2 to 3, and then 3 to 4 without initiating, but his adjusted Magic will still be zero. He will need to initiate before raising his Magic to 5, which will finally give him an effective Magic rating of 1. So that is 45 karma he will need to spend, then he can spend for initiation, then spend 25 more Karma, to get a Magic rating of 1 after astral hazing is applied.

[Machiavelli]

Ok, so i can still increase magic, even while i don´t have any magic-attribute left “at the moment”. What would you say about initiation? Does a “currently-not-exisiting” magic attribute interfere here in any way or can is secretly enhance my skills until I am magical again? What about a mentor spirit. Do you still have contact, if you don´t have a magic attribute available? Can I “buy” a mentor spirit, even if I lack all skills?

[Neraph]

Unless I'm reading it wrong, he bought a Magic of 3, got two points of bioware, and has a Magic of 1, which is then affected by background count. So he can raise it from 1 to 2, 2 to 3, and then 3 to 4 without initiating, but his adjusted Magic will still be zero. He will need to initiate before raising his Magic to 5, which will finally give him an effective Magic rating of 1. So that is 45 karma he will need to spend, then he can spend for initiation, then spend 25 more Karma, to get a Magic rating of 1 after astral hazing is applied.

This is correct. I was only dealing with the Natural Maximum, and not the actual rating.

Ok, so i can still increase magic, even while i don´t have any magic-attribute left “at the moment”. What would you say about initiation? Does a “currently-not-exisiting” magic attribute interfere here in any way or can is secretly enhance my skills until I am magical again? What about a mentor spirit. Do you still have contact, if you don´t have a magic attribute available? Can I “buy” a mentor spirit, even if I lack all skills?

1) Initiation - Astral Hazing would not interfere with Initation, as Initiation is based on Real Magic and not Adjusted Magic. It may make certain ordeals or whatnot more problematic, however.

2) Mentor Spirit - he'll be pissed with you for all the turbulence you cause. Imagine trying to call a new work associate and always getting craptons of static and interference in your calls. And yes, you can get a Mentor Spirit because, just like everything else, the only thing Mentor Spirit wants to see is a Magic Rating, which you have. It just happens you've got a temporarily (until further notice) reduced Magic rating.

But this begs the question: Why the frag would you decide to make a character that is not operable for his chosen archetype?

EDIT: The particular character you're talking about would be better made as a bio-light adept without astral hazing (~1 point of bio, Magic 5). If you wanted to be more protected from spells and whatnot you could take Adept powers to help with that instead of making your Magic unusable, and with the resulting 70+ karma you save you could improve combat/stealth abilities instead of finally climbing out of a debilitating hole.

[Draco18s]

This is correct. I was only dealing with the Natural Maximum, and not the actual rating.

Which is unaffected by Astral Hazing. Your max is still 4, hazing or not.

[Machiavelli]

I choose astral hazing, because i wanted to create a real badass-spirit-killer. Of course the start is a little bit humpy, but after initiation he gains back some of his powers i wanted to spend on mystic armor, spell resistance and killing hands etc. I wanted him also be be still workable if he is in an area with high BC. So i put a little bioware into his body and all the magic stuff can follow later. This time i didn´t go for a super optimal character but something wort advancing.

[Draco18s]

Play a dwarf, make sure you have a troll in the party who picks up the "throw ally" feat.

You are now a projectile that insta-gibs Force 4 spirits and lower.

[SpellBinder]

Spirit Killer? Try an elf magician, high Charisma & Willpower, high Banishing skill, and three levels of Kiai. At the start you could be throwing 9 dice (or more) for an Attack Of Will that deals potentially 10 + Hits damage to a materialized spirit that bypasses ITNW. For the times a spirit isn't materialized (or you don't want to get close) just make sure you can cast the Slay Spirit spell.

[Ryu]

I choose astral hazing, because i wanted to create a real badass-spirit-killer. Of course the start is a little bit humpy, but after initiation he gains back some of his powers i wanted to spend on mystic armor, spell resistance and killing hands etc. I wanted him also be be still workable if he is in an area with high BC. So i put a little bioware into his body and all the magic stuff can follow later. This time i didn´t go for a super optimal character but something wort advancing.

The idea of increasing Magic several times in a row, then initiating, then raising it again is somewhat strange as you forfeit on four points due to qualities and (at least) one to ware. It´s impressive if you get that to work. As GM I´d create a magical group offering to help as "your aura shows the proper attitude", while usual groups would not take you up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[Neraph]

I choose astral hazing, because i wanted to create a real badass-spirit-killer. Of course the start is a little bit humpy, but after initiation he gains back some of his powers i wanted to spend on mystic armor, spell resistance and killing hands etc. I wanted him also be be still workable if he is in an area with high BC. So i put a little bioware into his body and all the magic stuff can follow later. This time i didn´t go for a super optimal character but something wort advancing.

73 karma is not "a little bit humpy." That is inoperable as an archetype. All those buildpoints you spent are literally worthless until such a time you get enough karma that most campaigns end or characters die.

[Glyph]

I see what you want - someone who eventually affects other people (and spirits) with his background count, after his own Magic has finally been raised high enough to have some powers on top of that. The thing is, while astral hazing is a powerful ability to have, it is probably not worth the 4 points of Magic you are losing. That could be (for example) killing hands, critical strike: 4, elemental strike, and spell resistance: 4, right there. Plus, the character will be fairly limited while he is still earning the not insignificant amount of karma he needs to overcome his own astral hazing.

[Machiavelli]

Believe me, i know that. Usually i have super-optimized builds that scratch easily on the edge of what is possible, but this time i wanted to start rather "calmly". The only thing i will change, is switching him to an mystic adept. The mentioning of the filtering metatechnique was ways too attractive for me to be ignored. ^^ But besides that, i like the concept a lot. Of course astral hazing is a massive drawback for your magical abilities, but if you get into close combat with a spirit, you can take him out with mundane ways without a problem. This plus the potential protection you get even from spirit powers is priceless, even in comparison with magical resistance through adept powers or counterspelling. With this char. i can 100% relate to my mundane abilities and raise magic over time. And usually our chars. survive longer than 100 karma, so it is a 5-year-plan. ^^

[toturi]

Believe me, i know that. Usually i have super-optimized builds that scratch easily on the edge of what is possible, but this time i wanted to start rather "calmly". The only thing i will change, is switching him to an mystic adept. The mentioning of the filtering metatechnique was ways too attractive for me to be ignored. ^^ But besides that, i like the concept a lot. Of course astral hazing is a massive drawback for your magical abilities, but if you get into close combat with a spirit, you can take him out with mundane ways without a problem. This plus the potential protection you get even from spirit powers is priceless, even in comparison with magical resistance through adept powers or counterspelling. With this char. i can 100% relate to my mundane abilities and raise magic over time. And usually our chars. survive longer than 100 karma, so it is a 5-year-plan. ^^

I'd have gone with Geomancy to Aspect the BC to the character's magic myself. So once he Geomances his Astral Hazing, it is a 8 point swing, from -4 to +4.

[Draco18s]

Geomancy

*Twitch*

[Neraph]

I'd have gone with Geomancy to Aspect the BC to the character's magic myself. So once he Geomances his Astral Hazing, it is a 8 point swing, from -4 to +4.

I have a page in my character's dossier with the pertinent sentences printed out so I can argue to my GM why it works. I'm waiting on like 6 more Karma to get the ball rolling.

[Draco18s]

By the way, you know it takes a month (minimum), right?

And that even under the most lenient of rulings the afflicted can't move until the aura is aspected, otherwise you have to start over.

Know how big their blight is until then?

720 meters radius, give or take. Hope you're doing that out in the desert or you might accidentally piss off a lot of people.

[toturi]

I have a page in my character's dossier with the pertinent sentences printed out so I can argue to my GM why it works. I'm waiting on like 6 more Karma to get the ball rolling.

If my memory serves, the first line of Astral Hazing is as useful as its last line.

[Neraph]

By the way, you know it takes a month (minimum), right?

And that even under the most lenient of rulings the afflicted can't move until the aura is aspected, otherwise you have to start over.

Know how big their blight is until then?

720 meters radius, give or take. Hope you're doing that out in the desert or you might accidentally piss off a lot of people.

I think it's like 4 months. It doesn't say you can't move for 4 months, just that once a month you need to do a ritual.

EDIT: Re-read Geomancy just to be sure and there is no mention that the site has to be immobile.

[Glyph]

Assuming the GM allows geomancy to be used this way (RAW or not, the GM might still disallow it for game balance reasons), succeeding in aspecting a Rating: 4 background count will be daunting.

You basically treat it like a ritual spellcasting test (you will need that skill) of a Force: 8 spell, while still being affected by the background count. That means you need to have a Magic of at least 8 (4 after astral hazing) to even be able to attempt it. You have a threshold of 8, meaning you need 9 hits, not easy to do even if you use Edge to uncap hits (you have to do that if you are doing the ritual by yourself). Then you resist 8 Drain, probably physical Drain, but that isn't bad; it might mess you up for a bit, but it won't kill you.

The interesting part is what the GM might demand for the character to do to "re-sculpt" the "site". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Draco18s]

Don't forget paying off the negative quality, too. It's no longer a negative quality.

[toturi]

Don't forget paying off the negative quality, too. It's no longer a negative quality.

It is still a negative quality in its raw state without the application of Geomancy, therefore there is no need and in fact, you want it there. Else there is no Background Count to Aspect.

[Draco18s]

And if a GM believes that, they deserve the ruin that will follow from having a character who has 4 higher magic where ever he goes, and is otherwise magically untouchable.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

And if a GM believes that, they deserve the ruin that will follow from having a character who has 4 higher magic where ever he goes, and is otherwise magically untouchable.

Indeed - We do not allow aspecting of the Background Count from Astral Hazing. Negative Quality and all that. You want something like that craft a Magician with the Spell "Aspected Mana Static." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)