[SR4] Edge and breaking of Limit Options

[Machiavelli]

Sorry for starting one topic after the other, but i need some verification:

Can i cast a spell at force 6 on a sustaining focus with more than 6 successes if i use edge? And where can i find an example for this procedure? I know it is possible in SR5, but i thought that the Ede-rules in SR4 allowed the same. But to prove it to our GM, i need a official-in-book-reference. The edge-rule itself is not really clear about this and i couldn´t find a proper example for the opposite.

Thank you.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

In SR4, much like SR5, you use a Force 1 Focus with hits uncapped (Force 6 is just too expensive). Though, admittedly, using a Force 1 Focus is easily removed. If I were to pursue such things, it would be a Force 4 Focus, so as to account for at least a Rating 2 BGC and still retain at least Force 2 Effectiveness. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Not sure where to find it off the top of my head though, and AFB. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Machiavelli]

I would even go for a force 6 spell, trying to get 9 successes. So it is barely breakable and has sufficient power left, if we head for serious BC. Of course it will cause problems regarding the law etc. but i think my crime cannon causes more problems. ^^

[Machiavelli]

Got it. SR4A. Page 182, section Force.

A spell’s Force limits the number of hits (not net hits) that can be
achieved on the Spellcasting Test. So if you cast a Force 3 spell and get
5 hits, only 3 of those hits count. In other words, Force has a limiting
effect on spells—the more oomph you put into the spell, the better
you can succeed with it. This limitation does not apply to Edge dice
that are used to boost a spell.

[pbangarth]

That's the one, Machiavelli. Of course, Edge is usually in severely short supply, and one encounter with BGC or Counterspelling, and the buffed, low power spell goes away.

I've never counted on an Edge-circumvention of a "limit" lasting a long time.

[Critias]

Don't forget it still only counts as a Force X focus, also, for any tests where that may come up. You've got the extra hits, for what they're worth (depending on the spell), but any time the actual Force of the focus is a concern, you're still dealing with it directly (not the "augmented" Force of the spell, from Edge usage). It may or may not ever come up, but it's something to keep in mind.

[KarmaInferno]

I know in Missions I've avoided the use of higher force spells in lower force foci, even if the character had Edge to burn, simply because a lot of GMs find the tactic cheezy. I'd rather not waste time in arguments, especially in limited play time slots.


-k

[pbangarth]

It's not that the Force of the spell is higher than that of the Focus, it's that you can get more hits with Edge than the Force allows. A common example is a Force 1 Sustaining Focus that has a Force 1 Increase Reflexes spell in it, but with a few extra hits from Edge it gives the maximum boost of 3 IP and 3 REA.

Yes, it can seem cheesy, but remember it can only be done a few times before an Edge refresh. Yes, the sustain lasts, but it can be brought down many ways. As Critias points out, in this example the spell is still a Force 1 spell when, for example, resisting Counterspelling. It's a potent but costly multiplier of the power of the focus.

Especially when you could have used that Edge point to help resist the opposing mage's Stunbolt.