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> Sniper and Spotter
FuelDrop
post Jun 7 2014, 06:59 AM
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So, been thinking.

A sniper and spotter 2-man team is not unheard of. So I'm thinking, how would that translate into Shadowrun mechanics?

My first thought was a teamwork test, with the spotter using perception to buff the sniper's longarms skill. Would this work? If so, would a spotter drone with a decent clearsight program do the same job in a pinch?

My second thought was a leadership teamwork test, but the implication that all spotters are born leaders doesn't really work either (Apologies to any actual snipers or spotters that frequent the boards. I really don't need any sharpshooters with a grudge against me!)

Having the spotter use longarms doesn't really seem to make that much sense either.

Thoughts, opinions, rants about how little I know about real weapons and tactics?
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Uli
post Jun 7 2014, 07:31 AM
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QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Jun 7 2014, 08:59 AM) *
My first thought was a teamwork test, with the spotter using perception to buff the sniper's longarms skill. Would this work? If so, would a spotter drone with a decent clearsight program do the same job in a pinch?


That was my first thought, too. However, I don't think that a drone would suffice. I think there is a little bit of leadership involved, specific aim-oriented communication from the spotter. Rules-wise, I'd stay with a teamwork test using perception. Drones just cannot do it.


Note: I don't know jack about murdering people in teams with rifles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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FuelDrop
post Jun 7 2014, 08:05 AM
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QUOTE (Uli @ Jun 7 2014, 03:31 PM) *
Note: I don't know jack about murdering people in teams with rifles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Isn't 'Murdering people in teams with rifles' quite a common playstyle for Shadowrun?
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Shemhazai
post Jun 7 2014, 08:27 AM
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I'm leaning toward Longarms + Intuition. My rationale is that the longarms skill encompasses more than marksmanship, and knowing what the shooter needs to know about the target would be very helpful.

Maybe spotting could be a specialization for that skill.
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Uli
post Jun 7 2014, 11:54 AM
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I like that idea best so far.

@FuelDrop: Common for SR but not for me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Jaid
post Jun 7 2014, 05:33 PM
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i always understood the primary role of the spotter to be "hey make sure nobody is walking up right behind me while i focus all of my attention on an area 10 feet across and half a mile away". that is, their job is to spot the area nearby, not tell the sniper how to shoot people.

do spotters actually make a sniper more accurate?
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psychophipps
post Jun 7 2014, 06:09 PM
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Spotters, usually found only in sniper teams that are a part of conventional forces, provide extra security and assist as a double-check of range, windage, etc calculations. They can be very helpful as an extra set of eyes looking for targets as well.
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Wounded Ronin
post Jun 8 2014, 12:04 AM
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QUOTE (Jaid @ Jun 7 2014, 01:33 PM) *
i always understood the primary role of the spotter to be "hey make sure nobody is walking up right behind me while i focus all of my attention on an area 10 feet across and half a mile away". that is, their job is to spot the area nearby, not tell the sniper how to shoot people.

do spotters actually make a sniper more accurate?


I think that's a secondary role, what you're describing. Read "The Ultimate Sniper" by John Plaster.

The sniper can't necessarily see if he hit his target or not. So the spotter confirms hits, or in the event of a miss reports exactly where the round landed in relation to the target so that adjustments can be made.
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Wounded Ronin
post Jun 8 2014, 12:07 AM
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QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Jun 7 2014, 02:59 AM) *
A sniper and spotter 2-man team is not unheard of.


Is standard practice. My advice is to read "The Ultimate Sniper" by John Plaster.

EDIT: It is both a technical guide but also a very entertaining read with cool anecdotes from 'Nam and 70s style hand drawn cartoon riflemen. It is one of the coolest books to ever exist and is absolutely worth a read.
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Glyph
post Jun 8 2014, 03:47 AM
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A spotter would still be useful, but a lot of the calculations in Shadowrun could be done by the smartlink now.
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Curator
post Jun 8 2014, 03:49 AM
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wouldn't something be able to 'paint' a target with a laser or something electronic that a smartgun would be able to aim for? i know thats what they do for missiles
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Wounded Ronin
post Jun 8 2014, 04:10 AM
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QUOTE (Glyph @ Jun 7 2014, 10:47 PM) *
A spotter would still be useful, but a lot of the calculations in Shadowrun could be done by the smartlink now.


I suppose it's one of the backup skills you could have for in case your tech fails. A spotter with a pair of binoculars is EMP-proof, as long as he doesn't have cyberware I guess.
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FuelDrop
post Jun 8 2014, 04:15 AM
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QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Jun 8 2014, 12:10 PM) *
I suppose it's one of the backup skills you could have for in case your tech fails. A spotter with a pair of binoculars is EMP-proof, as long as he doesn't have cyberware I guess.

Also hacker resistant, if you go low-tech with your binoculars and use, you know, lenses that focus light into your eyes instead of computer enhanced imaging.
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Wounded Ronin
post Jun 8 2014, 05:49 AM
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I suppose you could argue that insofar snipers are supposed to maximize stealth, some of the stealthiest might opt to go low tech and not use any electronics, in order to reduce their electronic signature.
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Jaid
post Jun 8 2014, 06:38 AM
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QUOTE (Curator @ Jun 7 2014, 10:49 PM) *
wouldn't something be able to 'paint' a target with a laser or something electronic that a smartgun would be able to aim for? i know thats what they do for missiles


missiles can correct their course to home in on the reflected light.

while i wouldn't be *too* surprised if there was a bullet that could do the same by 2070, i don't think it's the standard by any means (in fact, i don't recall ever seeing one in any sourcebook. truth be told, 4th edition missiles were actually so inaccurate, i'm not sure i'd want to use whatever shoddy tech they were using to guide those things anyways... but 5th edition missiles are pretty accurate at least).

then again, if there was such a bullet, i feel like the sniper could just keep painting the target anyways. i mean, they've already got the laser sight.

(as to stealth, courtesy of the way 2070 wireless technology works - or doesn't work, depending on how you look at it - the sniper only has to worry about EM signals if he's within 100 meters)
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DWC
post Jun 10 2014, 12:07 AM
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In most cases, the spotter is actually the more experienced of the pair. The spotter is responsible for visually determining range, wind, elevation changes, air temperature gradients, and figuring out all the stuff the shooter needs to dial his scope in. The shooter's job is largely to follow directions, keep his crosshairs on target, and have a very smooth trigger squeeze. The rules for using Leadership to improve the marksmanship of another shooter were really the sole redeeming quality of War! and I really do hope we get something similar.

How's this for an idea? The spotter makes a Longarms + Intuition test against his or her Mental Limit. Every hit negates a penalty die against the shooter. It stops the shooter from being better than they would otherwise be, but allows a really good spotter to turn a tough shot into a much simpler one.
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psychophipps
post Jun 10 2014, 12:14 AM
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an someone hook me up with a link to this "War!" thing. My goggle-fu is apparently weak sauce.
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Sendaz
post Jun 10 2014, 12:16 AM
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http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/86596/Shadowrun-War
?

or did you mean something else?
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psychophipps
post Jun 10 2014, 12:37 AM
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QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jun 9 2014, 07:16 PM) *


Depends. Is that book what everyone keeps alluding to in their posts?
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Jun 10 2014, 12:56 AM
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QUOTE (psychophipps @ Jun 9 2014, 05:37 PM) *
Depends. Is that book what everyone keeps alluding to in their posts?


That's the one. Many do not like the book at all. Me, I have no real issues with it, though the fluff can be a bit out there in this book. Some of the Crunch needs a little work too.
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Jaid
post Jun 10 2014, 12:58 AM
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QUOTE (psychophipps @ Jun 9 2014, 07:37 PM) *
Depends. Is that book what everyone keeps alluding to in their posts?


probably.

but you should be warned that it isn't exactly the most popular shadowrun book ever written. in fact, i think it may be the least well-received SR book ever written. consider the size of the book, then consider that someone noted the rules on sniping are the only redeeming feature... and nobody else stepped in to argue.

seriously, look at some reviews before you buy it and decide if you want to spend the money. most people i've seen say anything about it have actively disliked basically everything about that book. if you want to buy it, then buy it, but first you should educate yourself on the matter so you have a better idea of whether you actually want to buy it, or just think that you do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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psychophipps
post Jun 10 2014, 02:19 AM
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Thanks for the heads up, Jaid. I have a pretty good idea of the score with CGL books. I have yet to pick up a copy of a single CGL-only SR product. The WizKids stuff, or the stuff they did most of the work on, was pretty good so my SR4 collection is limited to the first batch of books, Unwired, Street Magic, Augmentation, Companion, and Arsenal. To be honest, I don't see a single reason why I would need more than these considering how I run my games.
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Jaid
post Jun 10 2014, 05:55 AM
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running wild has lots of critters, and it's pretty hard to screw up a critter book?
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Wounded Ronin
post Jun 10 2014, 10:01 AM
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QUOTE (psychophipps @ Jun 9 2014, 07:37 PM) *
Depends. Is that book what everyone keeps alluding to in their posts?


I dunno, I'm alluding to The Ultimate Sniper by John Plaster.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Sniper-Majo...ultimate+sniper

Wow, you can even get it as an ebook now!
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Critias
post Jun 10 2014, 10:05 AM
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QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Jun 10 2014, 05:01 AM) *
I dunno, I'm alluding to The Ultimate Sniper by John Plaster.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Sniper-Majo...ultimate+sniper

Wow, you can even get it as an ebook now!

Sorry, I didn't quite catch that. Can you tell us about it four times, maybe? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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