Making a 4e Character: Optimization & Avoiding Traps Options

[Mantis]

Eh, second hand ware, unless it is alpha, isn't worth it. Recovering essence later in game is theoretically possible, though I've never seen anyone actually do it, mostly due to cost and time required. It isn't really worth while at 0.1 essence/month of gene therapy and a price tag of 75,000 + 20,000/month. Better off to get the basics you need to start play and then upgrade as you go if you are worried about essence.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Eh, second hand ware, unless it is alpha, isn't worth it. Recovering essence later in game is theoretically possible, though I've never seen anyone actually do it, mostly due to cost and time required. It isn't really worth while at 0.1 essence/month of gene therapy and a price tag of 75,000 + 20,000/month. Better off to get the basics you need to start play and then upgrade as you go if you are worried about essence.

My Cyberlogician did it towards the end of the Campaign. Not something that you do in the beginning, to be sure. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Jaid]

getting a good initiative booster in chargen is generally a good idea. wired reflexes < synaptic booster < move-by-wire, as a rule (although if you're going augmented adept, the synaptic booster is better since you already have a way to boost your dodge skill).

[Glyph]

move-by-wire: 2 is the equivalent of wired-reflexes (alphaware) combined with reaction enhancers: 2, having the same Essence cost and only costing 1,000 Nuyen more, although you need the restricted gear quality to get it. It is worth it, since it also gives you +2 to dodge and rating: 4 skillwires. Wired reflexes: 1, though, at 11,000 Nuyen, is just the thing for a character who has combat as a secondary specialty and needs a cheap initiative boost. Synaptic boosters are the most Essence-friendly option, but are expensive. They are worth it for adepts, because synaptic boosters: 2 only cost you a single power point in lost Magic, compared to 2.5 power points to get improved reflexes: 2.

[X-Kalibur]

move-by-wire: 2 is the equivalent of wired-reflexes (alphaware) combined with reaction enhancers: 2, having the same Essence cost and only costing 1,000 Nuyen more, although you need the restricted gear quality to get it. It is worth it, since it also gives you +2 to dodge and rating: 4 skillwires. Wired reflexes: 1, though, at 11,000 Nuyen, is just the thing for a character who has combat as a secondary specialty and needs a cheap initiative boost. Synaptic boosters are the most Essence-friendly option, but are expensive. They are worth it for adepts, because synaptic boosters: 2 only cost you a single power point in lost Magic, compared to 2.5 power points to get improved reflexes: 2.

Although if you're packing an adept way with access to Improved Reflexes for discount, it becomes hard to beat you just taking it to level 3 rather than getting 'ware, and using the essence for agi/str increases.

<edit> and a 'jack, because I'm old school and like my characters having 'jacks.

[Shortstraw]

Don't forget boosted reflexes from the way of the samurai as they stack with any non-aug IP booster 5 IP!

[Uli]

SR4A Ann p. 196: Improved Reflexes
The maximum rating of is 3, and the increase cannot be combined with technological or other magical increases to Initiative.

That leaves the Increase Reflexes spell which is unfortunately not explicitly forbidden - IPs are just limited to 4. Still, the combination is ludicrous.

[Elfenlied]

That leaves the Increase Reflexes spell which is unfortunately not explicitly forbidden - IPs are just limited to 4. Still, the combination is ludicrous.

How is the "Increase Reflexes" spell excempt from the clause "other magical increases to Initiative"?

[Jaid]

How is the "Increase Reflexes" spell excempt from the clause "other magical increases to Initiative"?

I think he means that the improved reflexes power won't work with boosted reflexes, because it has restrictive text, but the improved reflexes power will because it doesn't have that restrictive text.

[Uli]

Indeed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

[Mantis]

The most important part, I think, is the clarification on number of physical IPs you can have. No matter what you do or how you stack stuff, no more that 4 IPs are possible.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The most important part, I think, is the clarification on number of physical IPs you can have. No matter what you do or how you stack stuff, no more that 4 IPs are possible.

Unless you are a Hacker/Rigger or Technomancer/Rigger, who can both get up to 5 Passes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Mantis]

Unless you are a Hacker/Rigger or Technomancer/Rigger, who can both get up to 5 Passes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Which is why I pointed out it was physical passes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Which is why I pointed out it was physical passes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Arguably, though, the Rigger's Passes have a Physical Component that is applicable. While the Rigger's Actions are considered Matrix Actions, the vehicle's actions that they coordinate are very real indeed, and very physical. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[SpellBinder]

Arguably, though, the Rigger's Passes have a Physical Component that is applicable. While the Rigger's Actions are considered Matrix Actions, the vehicle's actions that they coordinate are very real indeed, and very physical. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Makes things very easy then if you've got 5 IPs in the Matrix and rigging hot: up to 4 IPs spent on whatever Physical world actions you need, and at least 1 IP on Matrix overwatch to make sure no hacker's decided to break into your network.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Makes things very easy then if you've got 5 IPs in the Matrix and rigging hot: up to 4 IPs spent on whatever Physical world actions you need, and at least 1 IP on Matrix overwatch to make sure no hacker's decided to break into your network.

That is one way to handle that...

[Shortstraw]

The most important part, I think, is the clarification on number of physical IPs you can have. No matter what you do or how you stack stuff, no more that 4 IPs are possible.

"Some implants and magic may give a character extra actions to
take in each Combat Turn. These are noted as extra Initiative Passes
on the character’s record sheet. The maximum number of Initiative
Passes a character can have is 5, but most character types can only ever
achieve 4." P68 SR4A

Kapow!

[Mantis]

Are we really doing this? A dispute about the number of passes you can get and how only folks acting in the matrix can get more than 4? Cuz honestly I don't feel like digging through the books to find the references.
Most character types can only ever achieve 4 passes because they aren't hackers, riggers or technomancers using their exceptional tech or echoes to achieve that extra 5th pass. In the matrix. Not in the physical.
So 4 passes in the physical. That is your actual meat body. Sure matrix types can get 5 but that isn't in their meat bodies.
Kapow!

[Udoshi]

You may only ever have four, UNLESS there is a [b]very specific in an item, and tend to be very specific with the combo.

The only two I know of are in the Advanced Echo for overclocking and the simsense accelerator commlink mod.

This leads to situations where a technomancer can have a simsense booster cyberware(which they DO benefit from) and overclocking, and only get 4 passes, or two simsense accelerators in one commlink (it does have 4 slots, and accelerators are 2 each), but the specific exception is with the booster, not another accelerator.[/b]

[KarmaInferno]

And many GMs will disallow stacking two Accelerators.



-k

[Udoshi]

Doesn't work by default anyway.

[Shortstraw]

Boosted reflexes and blood of kali gets you to 5.

[X-Kalibur]

Are we really doing this? A dispute about the number of passes you can get and how only folks acting in the matrix can get more than 4? Cuz honestly I don't feel like digging through the books to find the references.
Most character types can only ever achieve 4 passes because they aren't hackers, riggers or technomancers using their exceptional tech or echoes to achieve that extra 5th pass. In the matrix. Not in the physical.
So 4 passes in the physical. That is your actual meat body. Sure matrix types can get 5 but that isn't in their meat bodies.
Kapow!

And drones have a number of passes, when rigged, equal to that of the matrix persona rigging it (or 3 without rigging). Meaning that, while the TM/Decker/Rigger has 5 IPs in the matrix, his totally physical world drone is moving at 5 IPs as well. There is literally no restrictive text that says you cannot have all 5 of those in the drone, making it do stuff, in the physical world.

[Cain]

It has certainly been demonstrated as to why the GM has to clearly communicate with his players during CharGen and police what is going on.

That's just it, though. I shouldn't have to closely police characters; if the system is robust enough, it'll make the expected power level clear and encourage that. I don't know about you, but when I was running 4.5, a character generation session was a lot of discussion, and a lot of books being handed back-and-forth. It's really impossible to closely monitor six different characters at once. What's more, since you need accounting spreadsheets to keep track of Sr4.5 characters, it's easy to bury powerful tricks so the GM can't catch them, at least not until they've approved the character and it's too late.

In games like Savage Worlds, I can easily look at a character and see where every point was spent. It's a little harder in White Wolf, but it's still pretty straightforward. Even SR3, minus gear, can be easily double-checked in a few minutes. SR4.5 takes almost as long as building the character itself, and that
s using a calculator or computer!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

That's just it, though. I shouldn't have to closely police characters; if the system is robust enough, it'll make the expected power level clear and encourage that. I don't know about you, but when I was running 4.5, a character generation session was a lot of discussion, and a lot of books being handed back-and-forth. It's really impossible to closely monitor six different characters at once. What's more, since you need accounting spreadsheets to keep track of Sr4.5 characters, it's easy to bury powerful tricks so the GM can't catch them, at least not until they've approved the character and it's too late.

In games like Savage Worlds, I can easily look at a character and see where every point was spent. It's a little harder in White Wolf, but it's still pretty straightforward. Even SR3, minus gear, can be easily double-checked in a few minutes. SR4.5 takes almost as long as building the character itself, and that
s using a calculator or computer!

See, I think it is VERY obvious what the power level of the game is. Take a look at the opposition and it should be obvious to you too.
If the ELITE opposition (professional Ratings of 5/6) is throwing 16-20 Dice, PC's SHOULD NOT START at 20+ Dice. They should not even start at 15+.

The system assumes that 10-12 Dice is the Starting point based upon the character opposition that they provide. Can you play above that, with Hyper Specialists? Of Course you can, but please do not try and pass that off as the intent.

Of course, SR5 escalates that a bit right out of the gates by increasing what skills mean and how high they go so those numbers will increase by 3 or so, but in SR4A, if is pretty straight forward. If you tell me you are a Professional Grade [Whatever], your skill better not be a 6 (nor should it be a 1). Simple as that.