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> Street Grimoire is Live, "You're messin' wit' my Mojo, man!!!"
tasti man LH
post Jul 1 2014, 12:25 AM
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Link here

Huh, no previews this time...curious.

And of course this comes out the week of a con...and where I'm already supposed to be saving up to grab that lovely D&D starter box in a few weeks.
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Prime Mover
post Jul 1 2014, 12:37 AM
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Liking the cover....starting the read.
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Not of this Worl...
post Jul 1 2014, 01:27 AM
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It looks interesting. No immediate turn-offs in the table of contents or the short preview. Nothing that appears to appeal to the old Grognard in me either however. I'm not sure what is supposed to sell this book to me. More like "You're supposed to buy this because it is the essential magic book" without actually being essential. Will someone read through it and tell me they at least nerfed Mystic Adepts and properly employed a proofreader?
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Sendaz
post Jul 1 2014, 01:52 AM
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No Spell creation info... though they do bring back a lot of the old spells, including shapechange and turn to goo.

So you can use what they give you, but designing new spells... not so much as far as I can tell, which was sort of odd given this is the magic splat book.

Light, Sound, Smoke, Metal and Sand did not make it across for Elemental effects, which was sort of sad, especially as Light now does a bit more against the tannable Infected.

One person raised a point about the adept power missile mastery... which lets you use everyday items as thrown weapons with an accuracy of 3.... most thrown weapons have a accuracy of physical limit, this is 3. He felt the Power went from cool to worthless in 5 words.

I would probably say though this isn't not too terrible, not great but it is being used to turn normal everyday items into throwing weapons so we shall see.

Spirits now keep track of you through your Conjuring Report..err.. Spirit Index which will be affected by how you treat the spirits and such, resulting in how well spirits respond (if at all) to your summons.

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rythymhack
post Jul 1 2014, 02:56 AM
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Take this with a bag of salt. But I think Mystic adepts are fine as they are (post 5 kamra change). I think the issue is the metagaming that tends to take place while making a character. Just because he happens to BE a mystic adept does not mean he needs to have improved reflexes at ALL much less at 3. Same with increase reflexes. Combat spells may be incredibly useful for a "shadowrunner". But let's be honest. How many of us REALLY focussed on one thing to be good at and persued it to the exclusion of all other things? Most of us have several low rated skills floating around in our heads. I would prefer to pick things that I may find useful in life and figure out how to use them on a run. (It's very rare that I do not make a character who does NOT carry random shoelaces and nuts (the not the kinds squirrels eat) and whatnot).
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tasti man LH
post Jul 1 2014, 03:35 AM
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Well here's my big question:

Traditions.

It was promised that in the magic book, that they'd add some additional crunch to distinguish them from each other then Drain Attributes and spirit loadouts?
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Smash
post Jul 1 2014, 05:13 AM
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Dumb question:

If my current character has a magic rating of zero and never plans on having one is there anything in this book for other archetypes?
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apple
post Jul 1 2014, 08:55 AM
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What about the rules for ally spirits?

SYL
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Sendaz
post Jul 1 2014, 09:13 AM
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@Smash: Not really, you pretty much need a Magic score to really make use of most of this.
There is some information on the various Bug Spirits, Shedim and such so as a GM it can be useful as a source, but is not dead vital for a non-awakened type.
Although of course knowledge is power and knowing what the competition (be it adept or bug) can do is never a bad thing, but again depends on the player. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

@Apple Ally Spirits and their creation are in there.

Possession looks interesting and am sure there will be many debates about it now.

2 main points:
a)For a spirit possessing a body to be able to increase their Physical stats, the Force of the spirit has to be higher than the stat and even then the bonus is Force/2(rounded down).
So if you have 4s in physical stats, one would need to have at least a Force 5 spirit to raise the stat and then just by 2. So no more mini boosting with low end level spirits.
If possessing another the mental stats and special abilities are that of the spirit, which means a possessed TM has no access to resonance while possessed.
If channeling through themselves, mana spells take the lower of the Mage or spirit's mental stat to resist and both take the damage.
The Force of the spirit also reduces Wound modifier by the Force of the spirit, so they can take a licking and keep on ticking (until they keel over)

b)Now a mage not of a possession tradition can learn the Channeling Metamagic to possess only himself (while still maintaining general control of body and such) rather than let the spirit materialize or manifest.
So a spirit does not need to have the possession power itself in this instance.
They have to be of a possession tradition if they want to use a spirit capable of possessing other persons or items still of course.
Think this will be really useful for the mystic adepts, but it means even a normal mage in a pinch can 'power up'.

There is more little bits to it but these two are the highlights that many will be talking about and debating concerning possession/channeling I imagine.

Before you panic about possessed mages kicking tail, Exorcism is a new metamagic and works with your Banishing skill to help bring those guys hopped up on spirits back down a notch.
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apple
post Jul 1 2014, 09:46 AM
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QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jul 1 2014, 05:13 AM) *
@Apple Ally Spirits and their creation are in there.


Can you perhaps describe how ally spirits / rules are different to SR4?

SYL
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Sendaz
post Jul 1 2014, 10:40 AM
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QUOTE (apple @ Jul 1 2014, 05:46 AM) *
Can you perhaps describe how ally spirits / rules are different to SR4?

SYL

With a cursory glance it look's pretty much a copy and paste of SR4 Street Magic, just remember Mental limits now apply for checks appropriately.

Plus losing an ally will affect your Spirit Index (your credit rating for your conjuring habits) as will mistreatment of said ally or any spirit for that matter.
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Temperance
post Jul 1 2014, 11:27 AM
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QUOTE (tasti man LH @ Jun 30 2014, 07:35 PM) *
Well here's my big question:

Traditions.

It was promised that in the magic book, that they'd add some additional crunch to distinguish them from each other then Drain Attributes and spirit loadouts?


Sorta, not really. In each Tradition block, there's a list of spells and adept powers that are common to the tradition. Picking them up is normal cost and you don't get any special benefits for picking them up, other than flavor.

-Temperance
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Sengir
post Jul 1 2014, 01:53 PM
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Is this a foul-up in the TOC, or are there really just 4 mentor spirits? (And what good is Berserker without a Norse tradition (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) )
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Temperance
post Jul 1 2014, 02:16 PM
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QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 1 2014, 06:53 AM) *
Is this a foul-up in the TOC, or are there really just 4 mentor spirits? (And what good is Berserker without a Norse tradition (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) )


Yes, and I'm not sure.

Unless I missed it somewhere, tradition creation seems to be missing as well as the spell design rules.

-Temperance
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Not of this Worl...
post Jul 1 2014, 02:39 PM
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Anyone notice any big changes from 4th edition? Because sadly the whole thing is reading to me like Street Magic rebranded.
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Temperance
post Jul 1 2014, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE (Not of this World @ Jul 1 2014, 06:39 AM) *
Anyone notice any big changes from 4th edition? Because sadly the whole thing is reading to me like Street Magic rebranded.


From my quick skim (also posted in RPGNet):

  • Less Qualities
  • Adds Adept Way Qualities.
  • Expansion of Ritual Spellcasting and the Enchanting skills.
  • Fewer traditions, with no explicit ways of creating your own.
  • Ordeal types are a wash. Meditation was expanded and made more flexible (Nine Paths to Enlightenment). Replaced Suffering with Hermit.
  • More metamagics.
  • More example groups and more in depth info in some cases. No rules to make your own. (Explicit Ritual for binding a group.)
  • More information on the bad spirits/traditions.
  • More info on magical phenomena.
  • No spell design rules.
  • Fewer alternate elements.
  • A couple new adept abilities: Elemental Body and Elemental Weapon being the standouts. Oh, and one that turns you into Pig-Pen from Peanuts. (Gives you a pollution aura for your toxic adepts!)


-Temperance
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Sengir
post Jul 1 2014, 06:18 PM
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QUOTE (Temperance @ Jul 1 2014, 04:16 PM) *
Unless I missed it somewhere, tradition creation seems to be missing as well as the spell design rules.

Well, tradition creation isn't really mechanical, there is no math or point buying involved. "You may houserule new traditions by substituting spirit types and the Drain attribute tit-for-tat" doesn't really warrant 1.5 pages (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

A spell design system on the other hand would not just have been nice for players, the spells already in the book would seemingly also have profited from clear design rules...
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Temperance
post Jul 1 2014, 06:29 PM
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QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 1 2014, 11:18 AM) *
Well, tradition creation isn't really mechanical, there is no math or point buying involved. "You may houserule new traditions by substituting spirit types and the Drain attribute tit-for-tat" doesn't really warrant 1.5 pages (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

A spell design system on the other hand would not just have been nice for players, the spells already in the book would seemingly also have profited from clear design rules...


True. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Still, a sidebar or a paragraph would have been nice.

And thanks for the link to the errata thread. Though, a couple of the examples (namely Ice Storm) may be functioning as intended.

-Temperance
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Sengir
post Jul 1 2014, 06:39 PM
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More TOC divination: There is both good ol' Slay [Metatype/Species] and Insecticide [Insect spirit], does the latter do anything special?
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Temperance
post Jul 1 2014, 06:49 PM
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QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 1 2014, 11:39 AM) *
More TOC divination: There is both good ol' Slay [Metatype/Species] and Insecticide [Insect spirit], does the latter do anything special?


Maybe? The Slay series seems limited to a biological species (spirits not listed as a viable target), while Insecticide and Destroy [Free Spirit] appears to be limited spirit killers. However, the spirit slaying spells are specialized Slay spells, per the text. Also, the types (Mana vs Physical) are different. Destroy is limited to a specific free spirit and the spell formula count's as the spirit's formula. Insecticide is best compared to Slaughter, as they are both AE's. Destroy is obviously single target, like Slay.

That said, the specialties have worse drain codes for no reason I can see.

Edit: After some thought, it does make sense.

For the Destroy spell, it acts as the spirit's formula. So giving it -1 drain for being more specific than slay, then adding +2 drain for it being a spirit formula.

For the Insecticide spell, it's effectively *5* spells. Since [Insect Spirit] covers all 5 types of spirits: Soldier, Scout, Caretaker, Nymph, and Worker. So +2 drain from Slaughter to add in multiple creature types. Or -1 for limiting type to insect spirits only, then adding +3 for the multiple creatures.

I can buy that.

-Temperance
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Sendaz
post Jul 1 2014, 06:53 PM
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QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 1 2014, 02:39 PM) *
More TOC divination: There is both good ol' Slay [Metatype/Species] and Insecticide [Insect spirit], does the latter do anything special?

I believe Insecticide leaves a pleasant pine scent afterwards. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Sengir
post Jul 1 2014, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (Temperance @ Jul 1 2014, 08:49 PM) *
Maybe? The Slay series seems limited to a biological species (spirits not listed as a viable target), while Insecticide and Destroy [Free Spirit] appears to be limited spirit killers. However, the spirit slaying spells are specialized Slay spells, per the text.

Slay has always had that target choice, nevertheless Slay Insect Spirits goes back to Prime Runners (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

QUOTE
Also, the types (Mana vs Physical) are different.

Which one is Physical?
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Temperance
post Jul 1 2014, 07:07 PM
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QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 1 2014, 11:01 AM) *
Which one is Physical?


Destroy Free Spirit is Mana.
Insecticide is Physical. (Yes, it's a direct spell.)
One less, slay, slaughter are Mana.

-Temperance
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Sengir
post Jul 1 2014, 07:47 PM
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QUOTE (Temperance @ Jul 1 2014, 09:07 PM) *
Insecticide is Physical. (Yes, it's a direct spell.)
One less, slay, slaughter are Mana.

Same effect, more drain, and True Forms can just take off...must have been designed by Ares (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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tasti man LH
post Jul 2 2014, 02:25 AM
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QUOTE (Temperance @ Jul 1 2014, 03:27 AM) *
Sorta, not really. In each Tradition block, there's a list of spells and adept powers that are common to the tradition. Picking them up is normal cost and you don't get any special benefits for picking them up, other than flavor.

-Temperance

...just recommended spells/powers?

That's...disappointing. Moreso on what was said about their being not as many traditions as in Street Magic.
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