Depth of gear and lifestyles in your game Options

[Machiavelli]

Hello folks,

Currently our runs are going fine and we earn a lot of money. Additionally we have the luck of being able to spend this money, so our gear-stock is rising constantly. Now the problems start, because our GM wants to have a list that shows which item is stocked into which flat/hide-out/sewer…

We also need to enlist, which car/motorcycle etc. belongs to which SIN.

You see, this leads to a lot of micro-management. Do you have similar experiences or is this a bit over-the-top?

Thanks.

[hermit]

It's very detailed. Usually, though, I also list relevant gear (as in, gear that is bought separately - a gun qualifies, a soy processor is integral to the lifestyle) for all my lifestyles, where it's stored, and assign cars to lifestyles (and lifestyles to SINs). The cars-to-lifestyles is a holdover from SR3, where cars had monthly upkeep, and lifestyles covered parts/all of a vehicle's upkeep.

Then again, I'm very tedious with my character management. Much of that is handwaved with other players in my groups.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It's very detailed. Usually, though, I also list relevant gear (as in, gear that is bought separately - a gun qualifies, a soy processor is integral to the lifestyle) for all my lifestyles, where it's stored, and assign cars to lifestyles (and lifestyles to SINs). The cars-to-lifestyles is a holdover from SR3, where cars had monthly upkeep, and lifestyles covered parts/all of a vehicle's upkeep.

Then again, I'm very tedious with my character management. Much of that is handwaved with other players in my groups.

I agree with this. Some of my characters are very meticulously detailed, down to the 52 separate Identities my Ninja has and what each identity has where. Pretty anal about it most of the time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Sendaz]

Pretty anal about it most of the time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Extremely so since I recall a rumour among some disgruntled non-fans, jealous of the Ninja's highly successful career, often believed among themselves that is where the various ID chips to swap out back and forth in the customized commlink were kept. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
Which naturally leads into a funny story about how one time the Ninja was going through security in HK when they were just breaking in some new Scanners with improved detection capability, which prompted a small but hilarious incident when security detected 51 persons trying to slip into the country illegally in the Ninja's derriere.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Extremely so since I recall a rumour among some disgruntled non-fans, jealous of the Ninja's highly successful career, often believed among themselves that is where the various ID chips to swap out back and forth in the customized commlink were kept. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
Which naturally leads into a funny story about how one time the Ninja was going through security in HK when they were just breaking in some new Scanners with improved detection capability, which prompted a small but hilarious incident when security detected 51 persons trying to slip into the country illegally in the Ninja's derriere.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Damn, thought I had suppressed that. Guess I will have to eliminate SOMEONE for the oversight...

[SpellBinder]

I agree with this. Some of my characters are very meticulously detailed, down to the 52 separate Identities my Ninja has and what each identity has where. Pretty anal about it most of the time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Some of mine are also quite detailed, though not with as many identities (yet, only at five for the most), but one has an exact ammo count for half a dozen guns and a dozen types of loads in total. And when that same one also also evolved into a rigger as well as being a hacker, details on over two dozen drones & vehicles, a third of them Doberman drones (or variant).

[Sendaz]

In our groups item destruction is a thing, which tends toward an unusually high turnover in equipment.

This does require a bit of tracking of where what was and such when things hit the fan.

This in turn means having to bootstrap/scavenge/Macguyver things more often then not along the way.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Some of mine are also quite detailed, though not with as many identities (yet, only at five for the most), but one has an exact ammo count for half a dozen guns and a dozen types of loads in total. And when that same one also also evolved into a rigger as well as being a hacker, details on over two dozen drones & vehicles, a third of them Doberman drones (or variant).

Sounds like my Cyberlogician. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[SpellBinder]

Sounds like my Cyberlogician. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And this one doesn't have any cyber... Well, nothing that's really cybernetic, anyway (he's got an arm that only looks cybernetic). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

And this one doesn't have any cyber... Well, nothing that's really cybernetic, anyway (he's got an arm that only looks cybernetic). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

A Hacker-Rigger with no Cyber at all (well, no REAL cyber anyway (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )... Interesting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
My Cyberlogician was chock full of cyber/bioware goodness. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[bannockburn]

Now the problems start, because our GM wants to have a list that shows which item is stocked into which flat/hide-out/sewer…

Well, I tend to be pretty meticulous myself when it comes to crucial gear of my characters. I don't usually list where every chip is, or what kind of clothes a particular wardrobe contains, but I do note down stuff that may be important, especially if I don't use it very often and would otherwise forget it.

Examples would be:
- Where a certain vehicle is parked
- Which gun is at which hideout
- Ammo count (and even clips [yes, clips, shaddap (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ])
- If a weapon is stored in an easy-access area, such as under the couch table, under the night table, under the sink in the bathroom and so on (yes, it pays to be this paranoid).
- Contents of emergency duffel bags. There's a good example in Safehouses of such a list, IIRC
- A packing plan for a run, which thing goes where. Much like what army soldiers are taught.
- How lifestyles are secured (maglocks, wards, cameras, emergency exits, sometimes floor plans)

Other things I don't note down. If I only have one lifestyle it is redundant to make a note where the car is parked, except when special security measures are in place. Neither is the layout of a outhouse very important.

[Shortstraw]

With my group all gear is assumed to be at the primary lifestyle of the current primary identity unless specifically taken with the character or placed elsewhere.

[Uli]

I belong to the passionate micromanagers, too. I love it, but in the past, none of my GMs required that. In my games, I tend to be more lenient, but lifestyles, SINs, and vehicles need to be alligned. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Blade]

Depends on the table.

It can be interesting to keep track of all this, because if a safehouse is lost, then all the gear that's inside is lost as well. If you don't have such a list, there's a risk your players will find tons of post-justification to why they had nothing of value inside that safehouse, why they have everything they need in the trunk of their car and why they suddenly don't have them anymore when the cops are inspecting the vehicle.

If you don't want micro-management but want to be able to know where the stuff really is, you might want to consider using a system for this. Something simple like, rolling a die if it's just random luck, or doing an Edge+Intuition (2) (or Edge+knowledge skill if applicable) test to check if the runner has that tool he needs when the player didn't specify if he took it with him or not.

[Machiavelli]

What i usually do, is having a folder of items i commonly use when i am in private mode / business mode / meeting mode / combat mode / sh*t hits the fan mode, but i always assumed, that the items i need are where i need them. It is like i don´t always point out, that i look around and try to avoid somebody following me on my way home. We play professional criminals and they know, how to behave in the SR universe.

[bannockburn]

We play professional criminals and they know, how to behave in the SR universe.

That actually leads to two possible scenarios:
1.) You immerse yourself into your role deeper, by thinking about that stuff they need, where it is and how to behave, in order to better reflect the life of a professional semi-legal person, or
2.) You handle it with dice rolls, because there is no need to know nuclear physics IRL if you play a nuclear physicist with the corresponding skill.

[Machiavelli]

I would prefer a mixture of both extremes. Of course i understand, that it annoys the GM if he sends some goons after you and suddenly everybody has their assault cannons in the smuggling compartments of their cars. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) On the other hand it is quite diffcult to organize several living styles and homes, especially if you don´t use them regularly. I think in RL it wouldn´t even be able to own several ID´s without causing too much attention, let alone if you think of switching one ID on and at the same moment another one goes offline. If somebody is looking for you (e.g. if you escape with the car of ID no. 1) your lifestyle should automatically be busted. If you switch then to another ID at the same location, i think it it easier to be tracked down because the switch itself is noticeable.

[bannockburn]

I see where you're coming from to be perfectly clear.
As a GM I don't need a detailed list of things, but I do occasionally ask if it seems like a fake ID or lifestyle could go up in metaphorical or literal flames.
On the other hand I've never had to deal with unreasonable players in a long-term setting where this is relevant. If such things happen on a regular basis (or well, maybe if I'd have planned something in particular), I'd ask the offender specifically to make me a list just to curb these fun-killing shenanigans.

As a player I usually just have my notes, or an answer ready if the notes don't suffice and a question needs to be asked. See my postings of things I note down, even if they're mostly used against my own forgetfulness. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
I don't see this record-keeping as tedious for myself, because I use Chummer and have everything neatly organized in locations anyways.

[Modular Man]

My thoughts exactly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
"Arsenal" was my first book. I tend to play characters who have quite a lot of gear, and I take a little delight in micromanaging that. My GM sure doesn't require that, though.
A lot of times I haven't thought about the gear my character is carrying beforehand, though. That's when I simply think "What would this professional tech-wiz have taken with him, according to the information he had beforehand?" - then sometimes I am suddenly outgunned because the milspec armour got left at home. That's quite okay with me.

[toturi]

The character should have some Knowledge of how to manage the character's multiple identities/SINs/licenses/etc. The higher the Knowledge skill, the better that management.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The character should have some Knowledge of how to manage the character's multiple identities/SINs/licenses/etc. The higher the Knowledge skill, the better that management.

Professional Skill: Tradecraft should cover that nicely. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[psychophipps]

Professional Skill: Tradecraft should cover that nicely. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Sounds good to me, except it's a bit broad. Of course, few TTRPGers know enough about the differences in intelligence operative vs. international terrorist tradecraft to even recognize that there is a difference so it's a bit of a moot point. I hereby declare that, "It's close 'nuff for government work". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

My personal favorite thing about SR is how it gives me a chance to find the goodies that the CGL crew forgot to add into the books and toss them on a character sheet anyway. If you look at my last few characters I've posted and the go-bag thread, I have always tossed in a weapon-mounted flashlight with IR filters (if not a smartlink/light combo with cool branding tossed in). I love taking RL gear that is very handy, halving the US dollar cost to make it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , and then slipping it into the game under the GMs nose. To be honest, they usually don't even blink or realize it's something I've tossed in myself, but it's still fun.

[Cain]

I've never run a game that detailed, but I know GM's who do. It's all a matter of personal taste.

I'm very loose about things. If you have extra equipment and you say it's stashed somewhere, I generally let it slide. Managing gear is tedious enough, and getting too detailed can turn into a trap for the unwary. If you were smart enough to buy three backup pistols, but forgot to get super detailed about where you hid them, it's not fair to screw you just because you missed a point or two.

In general, I've discovered that for players who like that level of detail, writing it is its own reward. I have never encountered a player who actually expected to go through five lifestyles in the course of a game. Still, if they enjoy knowing it's there, there's no reason to stop them.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

In general, I've discovered that for players who like that level of detail, writing it is its own reward. I have never encountered a player who actually expected to go through five lifestyles in the course of a game. Still, if they enjoy knowing it's there, there's no reason to stop them.

I agree... I am pretty sure that I am the only one at our table who goes into such detail (though we do have another that is pretty anal about it as well, though not to my level of OCD attention to detail). My character sheets often exceed 30 pages or more of detailed notes (sometimes my Contacts section hits that page count all on its own). And I have gotten better at cutting back these last few years. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But not everyone enjoys such detailed character accounting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Cain]

I agree... I am pretty sure that I am the only one at our table who goes into such detail (though we do have another that is pretty anal about it as well, though not to my level of OCD attention to detail). My character sheets often exceed 30 pages or more of detailed notes (sometimes my Contacts section hits that page count all on its own). And I have gotten better at cutting back these last few years. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But not everyone enjoys such detailed character accounting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

I agree, it's very personal.

In one Star Wars game, we had a player who insisted on drawing detailed layouts for every base we moved to. He went down to details like closets and bathrooms. He also insisted that we remodel the interior of every ship we lived in, and drew those out as well.

None of these details ever mattered in game, but he didn't mind. I came to realize that the act of drawing was really fun for him, so there was no reason to discourage him. I view intensive bookkeeping in the same way: if the player has fun with it, and it's not hurting anything, why stop them?

That said, I do have a problem when players ask to stop the game so they can do bookkeeping. If you want your character to have an investment portfolio, I'm fine with that. But don't stop a good RP or combat scene to press me for details, you can do that during downtime.