Increasing a decreased attribute, Possible? Options

[Seidaku]

Here's a hypothetical situation:

Rat Shaman Roy casts Decrease Strength on Rigger Jim. Jim's strength, normally 5, is reduced to 2 as long as Roy sustains his spell. Bear Shaman Bob wants to help his chummer out, so he casts Increase Strength on Jim to offset Roy's decrease. Since he's rolling against target number 2, he gets 8 successes, raising Jim's strength by 4 (the maximum that his force 4 Increase Strength would allow). During the course of a rather heated combat, Roy takes a burst of gunfire and goes down, releasing his spell in the process. Jim's strength is restored to its original value (5), and Bob's spell (still sustained) is still active. So Jim now has a strength of 9.

Is this valid? If so, why wouldn't you always first decrease an attribute before casting the appropriate increase spell on it? It makes the target numbers much more manageable.

[Dashifen]

Now quicken the spell and put this post in the twinking thread!

[A Clockwork Lime]

The reason it's not commonplace is because it takes at least two different spells (and thus twice as much Karma/Spell Points) to do it.

[Arethusa]

Personally, I'd rule that you have to roll against natural, unmodified strength or modified strength, whichever is higher.

[BitBasher]

I'd just make the players record sucesses and as soon as the decrease attribute is dropped, recalcualte the other spell effect, as it's sucesses are no longer valid.

[Zazen]

That's my answer too, for cheese-avoidance.

[John Campbell]

I'm with BitBasher on this one.

[Smiley]

BY no means am i a magic expert, but i have to agree with Arethusa. His strength isn't actually decreased, it's just temporarily lessened.

[Kagetenshi]

Behold the power of cheese.

~J

[RedmondLarry]

I'd just make the Increase Attribute spell terminate if something happens to increase the base TN. Such as when the character works out with weights and spends 10 karma to raise Strength from 4 to 5.

Go ahead and record successes if you want, but I'm for less paperwork. Shadowrun is complicated as it is.

[Zazen]

It's the same thing in practice. If you say this trick doesn't work then noone will do it and you'll never have to write anything down.

[Lilt]

My technique is to write-down all the rolls and compare them to the higher TN once the decrease spell is dropped. IE: They're exactly as well off doing that technique as they are using thenormal technique (well: Actually they're slightly worse-off because any karma they spend to reroll failures will not reroll the 'failures' that did hit the lower TN).

[Neon Tiger]

[A Clockwork Lime]

I just treat magical augmentations to an attribute the same as other augmentations. Increase Attribute won't have any effect, though Increase Augmented Attribute (a slight variation of Cybernetic) would. If the Decrease Attribute spell comes to an end, the attribute is no longer augmented and thus Increase Augmented Attribute no longer works. Likewise, Decrease Attribute doesn't help if trying to improve an attribute naturally, either, since it's an unnatural augmented attribute.

Beyond that, if they want to quicken or sustain both spells, I have no problem with it in my game. Just makes it twice as hard to mask, get past wards, and (if a focus is used) lowers your tolerance to foci addiction.