Astral Perception & Glass, Specs, Contact Lenses, Windows, Helmet Visors Options

[Mystweaver]

So it's reared its ugly head - probably not for the first time.

If a magicial is astrally percieving and he/she is wearing goggles/glasses/contact lenses - is their vision blocked? After all it is a physical object.

Can you see through windows on the astral? I'm pretty certain you cannot.

Hopefully I'm wrong but if I'm not how does wearing specs effect a dual natured being like a shapeshifter?

[Machiavelli]

No, glass is not transparent on the astral. Astral perception included. Real "Dual natured" beings can switch from regular to astral perception but are astrally attackable all the time.

[Mystweaver]

So if a dual natured being or astrally percieving magican puts on a pair of glasses (or wears contacts), it blinds their astral view?

Seems strange as a blind magicial can see but what, if you put some glasses on him he cannot?

:-/

[Novocrane]

Observing the astral plane is not a visual activity - it just involves extrasensory information most easily compared to vision.

Neither a blind mage nor one wearing a body glove is inhibited in terms of astral perception at last check, but please do correct me if I'm specifically contradicted on the latter anywhere.

[Machiavelli]

Basically yes. "mundane" objects are opaque on the astral, so even glasses hinder your "sight". Even if you target spells with your regular eyes, electronic magnification e.g. doesn´t work for a mage, because you need direct LOS and not an electronic image (i cannot remember though, if SR4 still has both version of magnification like electronic and optical). This is why cybereyes are soooo handy for mages. ^^

[Draco18s]

Observing the astral plane is not a visual activity - it just involves extrasensory information most easily compared to vision.

Neither a blind mage nor one wearing a body glove is inhibited in terms of astral perception at last check, but please do correct me if I'm specifically contradicted on the latter anywhere.

This is the best answer here. Glasses wouldn't impair your astral perception any more than a jacket impairs your sense of touch.

[Machiavelli]

Wrong. Sorry. I am off books, but i solely play awakened chars. and you can trust me on this one. As soon as your astral perception goes on, your "sight" is blocked by glass. Even transparent paper would hinder astral perception.

[Machiavelli]

Street Magic page 114 / Astral Visibility:

Shadows of physical objects in the astral plane may be drab an insubstantial, but they are still opaque and can prevent targeting. Items that are transparent or mirrored in the real world (like a car window) simply impair visibility as astral shadows.

[Draco18s]

Street Magic page 114 / Astral Visibility:

Yes, that is true. But where does targeting originate* for astral perception?

Its not your eyes, as even magicians who have had their eyeballs removed or otherwise damaged can still astrally perceive.

*In the "draw a line from you to the target" kind of originate. Not the "sunlight is where vision originates" because "that's where the photon was born and it ended at your eyeball" kind of originate.

[Mantis]

I generally go with glasses or contacts not blocking astral perception but things like car windows do. The idea behind the astral sight being blocked by the astral shadow of, for example, a store window, is to prevent astral targeting and give a game reason to infiltrate a place. Pretty much the same reason those store windows and car windows are polarized in the physical world. Stops easy magical attacks and eavesdropping.
As astral 'sight' has nothing to do with your eyes, there is no reason for something on your eyes to block it. As has been pointed out, blind magicians can astrally perceive so it is plain that astral sight is not linked to eyes.
Plus, this is just an unnecessary complication. 'Just wait, my magician has to take off his contacts before assensing this place. Damn, I dropped it!' Meanwhile the blind magician has no such problem.

[bannockburn]

The sane way to go with is that things you are wearing are not blocking astral perception. Just like you can direct a spell into an enemy's aura, despite him wearing clothes or even military power armor.
Where you draw the line in bulkiness depends on personal taste.

If you prefer, though, you can use the cited passage to its full extent and make mages always take off their glasses in Caruso style before they can astrally perceive. This way makes mages marginally more perceivable, beside the perception test to notice magic.

In the end, it doesn't really matter, as long as it's communicated within the group.

[Deschain]

If you prefer, though, you can use the cited passage to its full extent and make mages always take off their glasses in Caruso style before they can astrally perceive. This way makes mages marginally more perceivable, beside the perception test to notice magic.

Personally, I'd prefer to stick with the logic the books give us:

Astral perception is a psychic sense that is not linked to the character's physical sight. A blind magician can still magically perceive the astral plane and the creatures and auras within. Likewise deaf magicians can "hear" in astral space.

Given that text, it's rather clear IMO that the ability to astrally perceive is an additional sense where the practitioner's brain interprets the stimuli by mimicking the other senses.

In other words, if you want to put something on a character that blocks their ability to astrally perceive, you need to figure out first the mechanics of how perceiving works and it sure as hell ain't using the body's natural sensory organs. A blindfold would do as much to one's astral senses as it would one's sense of taste i.e. zilch.

[bannockburn]

That's exactly how I do it. If I want to block someone's astral sight, I have a watcher bouncing around in front of them (and screaming if I don't want to hear them, too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

The problem with this is that the issue was handled differently between editions and there's little actual definition as to where this psychic sense originates from. As a result, different groups handle it differently, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

[KarmaInferno]

From an in-universe point of view, your worn gear might be considered part of your overall aura and not a factor in astral perception.

Take the glasses off, however, and suddenly peering through them at a distance blocks normally.





-k

[Machiavelli]

This would be an acceptable house-rule if would go for. We shouldn´t make it even more complicated than it already is.

[ShadowDragon8685]

As I would handle it: Your astral senses are omnidirectional from your aura. You interpret it visually because that's how your mind is best set up to interpret astral stimuli, but it is not visual.

Your aura encompasses you, and anything you can reasonably be said to be wearing. Even big-ass power armor mini-mecha would not impair your aura, if it's something you wear. If it's something you pilot, then it would. (Examples: A suit of WH40K-ian Power Armor would be part of your Aura. A Titanfall type Titan would not be.)

So, no. Wearing contact lenses, or goggles, or a welder's mask, will not impair your astral senses, neither would wearing a set of power armor. And really, nobody expects the wizard in power armor!


Now, bear in mind, you can choose not to rule this way, but you're opening up a can of worms if you do. Specifically, if you rule that, say, wearing a head-to-toe body stocking blocks your astral vision, it also blocks other people from establishing Astral LoS to you, and thus completely immunizes you from many flavors of hostile WIZARDRY, like everybody's favorite spell, Stunbolt. This will very quickly become a complete paradigm change: head-to-toe body coverings will become standard, not only for the Runners, but also for security forces. It will also make physical spells, as opposed to mana spells, more appealing, whilst making assensing less useful because you can't see anybody's aura.

Mages can still take advantage of this, by the way, if they, for instance, wear the head-to-toe body cover, but keep like, the tip of one finger uncovered. They can cover it completely by folding in their fist, and when they want to cast spells, open their hand.

[Beaumis]

Yes, that is true. But where does targeting originate* for astral perception?

Any point of your aura. Its not really specified anywhere to my knowledge, but older editions and fluff have made a big deal out of the "synchronizing of auras" to spellcasting thing. The rules are clear that astral perception is not a traditional sense and lacking a physical focus its just "there". So from a strict RAW perspective, as long as there is a fleck of your aura exposed, you can use astral perception freely.

[Draco18s]

Any point of your aura. Its not really specified anywhere to my knowledge, but older editions and fluff have made a big deal out of the "synchronizing of auras" to spellcasting thing. The rules are clear that astral perception is not a traditional sense and lacking a physical focus its just "there". So from a strict RAW perspective, as long as there is a fleck of your aura exposed, you can use astral perception freely.

Cue "sticking my finger around a corner to cast spells."

[ShadowDragon8685]

Cue "sticking my finger around a corner to cast spells."

You can already stick your gun 'round a corner to cast bullet. I don't see the problem here.

[Draco18s]

You can already stick your gun 'round a corner to cast bullet. I don't see the problem here.

Doing so induces "firing blind" penalties. My point was that if you observe auras from any (and every) point on your aura, then you can target spells without penalty by exposing only a finger: you count as having line of sight from your finger.

[Beaumis]

Cue "sticking my finger around a corner to cast spells."

Nope, spellcasting still requires you to satisfy the range condition of the spell in question.

However, firing around a corner is easy with a smartgun. Frankly, if a similar modifier is applied, I don't see much of a problem with it. Noticing magic isn't based on visibility, so stealth isn't a real balance factor. Spellcasting and gunfire aren't that different from one another and an astral target will perceive you regardless of the wall and can use your finger as a valid target for return magic.

[Mystweaver]

I'm in favour of worn items don't impede astra senses but - how does a mage hood work?

[Draco18s]

but - how does a mage hood work?

Lead.

Call it some flavor of handwavium.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Lead.

Call it some flavor of handwavium.

Or you can assume that Astral Perception originates from the perceptive regions of the body (namely the head/mind) and that the Mage hood screws with that perceptive region enough to eliminate the ability. Seems perfectly reasonable to me; but then I never assumed you could use Assensing from your finger either. *shrug* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Draco18s]

Or you can assume that Astral Perception originates from the perceptive regions of the body (namely the head/mind) and that the Mage hood screws with that perceptive region enough to eliminate the ability. Seems perfectly reasonable to me; but then I never assumed you could use Assensing from your finger either. *shrug* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Cue "sticking my finger around a corner to cast spells."