[SR4] Armor on Cyberlimbs Options

[Stahlseele]

And as soon as you do something that needs more than the one arm, if you are really unlucky, it will be even worse due to averaged attributes . .

[pbangarth]

The point made earlier seems the most important to me: What do you need the Attribute for?

If you want to be the world's best retro-break-dancer, one agile arm is next to useless. If your primary reason for getting more agile is to shoot straighter, then it pays.

There is no overall best option.

[apple]

Well, except for pistols you use both hands for weapons (rifles, machineguns, submachine guns etc) - and even pistols are often used with both hands for better accuracy and recoil handling.

SYL

[Jaid]

Well, except for pistols you use both hands for weapons (rifles, machineguns, submachine guns etc) - and even pistols are often used with both hands for better accuracy and recoil handling.

SYL

one of the examples where you get to use one limb is when you lead a melee attack with your cyberlimb. not make the whole thing with it, mind you, but simply lead with it.

if leading an attack with your stronger/more agile arm counts, then firing a pistol (or machine pistol or even to some extent an SMG) should be possible - in fact, while i'm sure ideal conditions would have you using both hands, i also don't doubt that many times in actual combat, those smaller guns are in fact used one-handed simply because you have no time to get into a proper firing stance and such. as far as recoil, it's quite possible that your single cyberarm is stronger than both of your natural arms combined (especially if you actually did spring for customization or enhancement in that area), and for you to have a gyro built in to the arm to help in that regard as well. mechanically speaking, it's pretty easy to get an arm with enough strength to give one free point of recoil compensation, not so easy to get your natural strength there for most.

also, i don't know why you're so scared of getting screwed over by averaging. the cyberlimb has a higher attribute than your own base agility, and honestly probably strength too even if you don't spring for strength customization or enhancement if you're human or elf. the average will certainly be lower than the value in your one cyberlimb, but your cyberlimb should only be bringing your average up, not down (though in the case of strength, the amount of increase is probably too small of a fraction to have any effect in many cases). yes, your average won't be awesome. but again, i'm not advocating low agility with an awesome cyberlimb for B&E specialists or street samurai. i'm advocating it for a decker, or maybe even a face (though a face won't want an obvious limb, of course). someone who just wants to be able to do a decent job of shooting people without having to make the full investment of actually getting a high agility.

[SpellBinder]

And as soon as you do something that needs more than the one arm, if you are really unlucky, it will be even worse due to averaged attributes . .

Made me wonder something pertaining to the Shadowrun system of cyberlimbs: how do you guys handle a really divergent mismatch of attributes between the biological and the cybernetic? Like, for example, you've got a real wimp of a human with full on arms and legs that are maxed on Strength and no other implants. Ever consider the chances of a cyberlimb breaking itself from the poor slot's bones when (s)he tries some incredible feat of strength?

[Stahlseele]

SR3 had rules for that.

[Irion]

Honestly the rules for cyberlimbs just do not cut it.
It is like: Who the fuck will take them anyway...

So you have a lot of holes within (my armored cyberfoot with the nice nanohub) and the streetsam getting weaker by getting a cyberarm...

That would have been a great thing to fix in SR5. (But I guess there is also a lack of courage to really think of new mechanics because of "bähä I do not know that, I do not like that".

[Stahlseele]

Actually, if i remember correctly, they nerfed it so you could not armor partial cyber limbs anymore either . .
And you can not use the full capacity of a limb for armor either anymore . . and i think they did something about the nanohub and the partial cyberlimbs too, to make it not work like that anymore, but i am not sure about that at the moment . .

[SpellBinder]

I couldn't find anything in the SR5 book to say partial limbs impact cyber armor, but did find that partial limbs don't give a full box for the Physical Condition Modifier like they used to and count for half instead (two partial cyberlimbs = 1 Physical damage box).

[Irion]

@Stahlseele
Well, thats good in the way that they try to fix obvious problems. But I was thinking more of a new system which works all around.
Cyberlimbs are something you give your character with physically shitty attributes to cover them up, period.
Espacially interesting for the late game periode.
That they aligned hand and foot is also nice. But again the major elefant in the room, that your natural attributes are totally overwritten just stays...
(You have to go full cyber now to really get the benefit, but it stays...)

[Rad]

I think the problem isn't so much that cyberlimbs replace your attributes--that part makes sense to me--it's that cyberlimbs are touted as "better than meat" replacements when for many runners they actually aren't. I think the thing to keep in mind is:

A) That "better than meat" tagline is pure corp marketing, chummer, and you should know better than to buy whatever drek the corps try to sell ya'

and

B) For the average wageslave, cyberparts are better. It's when you compare their performance to hyper-trained street samurai that they start loosing their shine. A nifty chrome arm might make you as strong as Bruce Lee, but it doesn't necessarily make you stronger.

[Glyph]

Cyberlimbs were pretty useless in SR4 - except maybe for a face wanting Agility: 6 in one arm - until the optional rules in Augmentation, which made them actually usable. This includes a sneaky power-up for cyberzombies, since customized limbs are based on your natural maximum, which goes up with their negative Essence for cyberzombies. So cyberzombies actually can be badass with cyberlimbs.

SR5 rules closely resemble the Augmentation rules, although they got rid of the needless complication of cyberlimbs having a separate Body Attribute (they only have Agility and Strength now), while getting rid of the rule that a cybertorso lets you get enhancements over rating: 3 (enhancements only go up to 3 now). So cyberlimbs can make you powerful right out of the gate (especially if your "natural" stats are much lower), but over the long term, they cap out a point below the normal augmented limit.

[Jaid]

So cyberlimbs can make you powerful right out of the gate (especially if your "natural" stats are much lower), but over the long term, they cap out a point below the normal augmented limit.

to be fair, the rating 4 (non-magical) strength and agility options are mostly theoretical, too. i mean, rating 4 muscle replacement is 4 essence and the availability is non-trivial (especially if you try to get a higher grade to reduce that nasty essence cost), and muscle toner and augmentation have the same nasty availability and cost a rather large chunk of money (the availability puts it well out of the price range you can expect to afford any time soon given official SR5 shadowrun payments, so you can mostly only count on what you buy in chargen).

so yes, arguably you're missing out on a tiny bit of your absolute maximum potential... but practically speaking, you have the same chargen cap, and for many groups that is functionally the real limitation.

and for the groups where you actually earn your way up that high, you should be augmented adepts anyways (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Neraph]

Too Long/Only Skimmed: There's an interpretation of Cyber Limbs that would actually have you average the armor of all limbs and apply that, so that 4 cyber armor on one arm translates to 4 armor on attacks against that arm, but only 1 armor (fraction round up) against general attacks.