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> Rigger please! Let's talk Shop., (Because a Kit's too small and we have no Facility)
Wakshaani
post Sep 5 2014, 03:34 PM
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So, RIggers. The oft-overlooked, usually unloved stepchild of Shadowrun. Back in the day, they were the guy who said "I'll keep the van running," and stayed outside for the whole adventure. Later, they got drones, and suddenly the sound of dakka filled the skies. Each time they finally got their book of toys, it heralded a whole new edition, so they barely even got to use them before they lost them.

I'll freely confess that I love the lil' guys, and furthermore I made a lobby effort to change things up by making the Rigger book the *first* book for SR5 but, clearly, I lost that one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But I'm in a mood today and I'd like to chat about them a bit. Mind you, I hit my dayjob in about an hour and a half, so most chatting I'll be doing *after* work, but I figured I might as well seed things here.

So, before we go further, big note here:

DON'T DROP STATS HERE, AND TRY TO NOT GET SPECIFIC!

There are legal things when you start in about "I want a Harley Davidson K943 with a speed of ..." if that gets printed later, then heads roll. So, none of that.

Seriously.

From there, vague is better in a general sense. "I want more anthromorphic drones" is fine. "Giant mecha!" also fine. "I want Optimus Prime"... not so much.

So, that said, here's a few questins I have for Dumpshock.

First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)

Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?

Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)

Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?

Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?

What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)

There's bound to be something I'm forgetting, but these are the tirst things that tumble out of my head this morning.

Again, please remember that if you get too specific or stat things out, it's an untouchable thing, so walk softly!
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Sendaz
post Sep 5 2014, 04:05 PM
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First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?
That's a tough one as both offer a lot to a rigger.
Percentage wise maybe more vehicles and definitely more/better rules on handling and modifying same.
Drones should still get some love, but give the cars a starting point at least.

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)
That is a pretty good spread right there as most often you are going to be dealing with more civvie/sec level stuff, with just a sprinkle of mil spec.

Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?
Civvie / Sec Level please to start off on.
Things that the average runner could get ahead of and actually use predominately.
Again, Mil spec is nice but really that is a tier higher than the average runner should have to be messing with on a regular basis. Save that for the add on.


Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book).
Depends on what they put into the write up. Having half a page devoted to an item and still doesn't tell you how many seats it has is sort of a waste. Maybe a compromise of smaller write up and small art pics with an occasional big art piece for iconic items.

Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)
Ground 50 / Air 30 / Water 15 / Other 5

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?
No one buys the Facility because the mod rules are non existant or a mess in some editions so if they can make a workable system yes or even better if it is true build it from scratch figure how a mech type could build/bootstrap the equipment necessary to do a sub-facility.

Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?
Both. Yes it is an overlap, but this is a case where both parties can effectively use them and some players might get one book or the other and this is should be available to either.

What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)
Ares Warhammer and KE/LS MCCDS-01 “DOUGH-MASTER” MOBILE COMMAND CENTER/DOUGHNUT SHOP

Because awesome never dies. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Sep 5 2014, 04:13 PM
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Hmmmmm...


First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?
Even Split - I prefer drones over vehicles, but would like to see a lot of both.

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)
Civilian 50/Security 40/Military 10

Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?
Civilian 30/Security 50/Military 20

Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)
Somewhere in the middle, actually. Couple of entries/page with small art

Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)
Ground 30/Air 30/Water 30/Other 10

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?
Mods, Mods, Mods... Please, no design from scratch shenanigans

Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?
Ideally, the Rigger Book - Leave the matrix book for agents and common/hacking programs

What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Mercury Comet or DEATH!)
Loved them all, but SR3 and 4 vehicles/drones work the best for me, along with more new stuff, of course

Thanks...
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Beta
post Sep 5 2014, 04:48 PM
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For general story/play balance, drones have to be kept (probably unrealistically) limited in their abilities. If riggers can easily smoke samurai without ever getting exposed to danger, it screws up the fun of the game.

So, if you don't give them drones with bigger guns and better targeting, etc, what do you do? What I'd love to see is customization, with well thought out rules for doing this. Not just 'for 20% of base cost you can trade 2 points of body for 1 acceleration and 1 speed'. I want:

- to take a junker of a car, put in just enough smarts to be able to basically steer it remotely, weld a ram onto the undercariage, load it up with gravel for more mass, then use it to smash open a door.
- take a micro-drone, strip out the optics so I can fit if out with sonar only, and scout ahead for sound based motion detectors.
- hack together something that looks like an octopus on legs, equipped with shock functionality channeled through its metal tentacles
- buy or build a prop based hover bike (people are already experimenting with these--even if never mass market, they would be completely possible in 2074. I don't know when/where you would use one, but come on, who doesn't want a hover bike?)
- have high quality pilot/AI systems available, so that I can tell my car to circle the area inconspicuously, then come pick me up when I call it.
- have packable ultralights we can use for landing on building roof tops, and rules for how stealthy they can be. Ditto for hang gliders, for when there are higher roofs in the vicinity to start from
- have more middle-of-the-road vehicles, so that not every motorbike is either a huge hog or a racing bike---sometimes you just need NPC on not quite as good gear.
- have more rigger implant/control options. Right now how effective a rigger you are is in large part based on how much you spend on those items (assuming you take the obvious skills). Give more ways for riggers to vary from one another. Have an implant that is whiz for racing, but doesn't handle drones well, have another that doesn't give you a lot of bonus dice or reaction but does cool things with multiple drones, etc. Basically let a group have two Riggers who do largely different things (not just own different vehicles/drones)

And maybe most of all, some clarifications on how things work in 2074 so that runners can have an escape car without that being a liability (because as written right now, it kind of feels like you should be riding a bicycle everywhere to minimize traceability, and that just lacks in cool factor).
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Tanegar
post Sep 5 2014, 04:52 PM
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QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Sep 5 2014, 11:34 AM) *
First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?

Evenly split.
QUOTE
Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)

60% civilian, 40% security. I agree with Sendaz, leave the military stuff for another time.
QUOTE
Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?

40% civilian, 60% security. Let's be honest, most of the things runners want from a drone have to do with fire support; but a clever rigger should be able to get a fair amount of mileage out of a civilian package-delivery drone, for example.
QUOTE
Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)

Fewer items, more detail. More art is always a plus in my book. If necessary, we can always use the "similar models" rule to come up with variations.
QUOTE
Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)

Sendaz' 50% ground, 30% air, 15% water, 5% other seems reasonable to me.
QUOTE
Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?

Again, I agree that the reason nobody buys Facilities is that there isn't a really good scratch-build system. There should really be a good scratch-build system.
QUOTE
Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?

Yes. Even if Autosoft and Pilot programs are written exactly like other software, it shouldn't take that much space to duplicate them in the Rigger book.
QUOTE
What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)

All the classics: Jackrabbit, Americar, Nightsky, *Master, Wasp/Yellowjacket, Rotodrone, Doberman... you get the picture.

Also, I would like to support the "giant mecha" idea. Real Robot-style, please, not Super Robot. (PSA: The preceding are TVTropes links. Click at your own discretion.)
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Mantis
post Sep 5 2014, 05:15 PM
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First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?

I like a pretty even split on drones and vehicles so long as the items in question are useful. I'd rather not see, for example, 25 vehicles and 25 drones where 10 of the drones will never be used because they have too narrow a focus. The Ares Segway Terrier and Toyota MK Centipede from Arsenal are good examples of narrow focus. Never seen either one used in game. Sure such things may exist in the game world but they aren't terribly useful to a runner.

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)
Your spit seems pretty good. As has been said, mil-spec has its place but runners are more likely to use and see civilian and security class vehicles. Also, the mil-spec is very often priced well out of reach of a runner.

Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?
30/40/30. Why? Cuz runners will run into sec drones more often than the other types and it would be nice to have a bit more choice than here comes the dobermans again. They also seem the most fun.

Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)
Something in the middle if possible. While I generally like (and have) all the 4th ed vehicle splat books, there doesn't seem to be all that much useful info in the write ups. If you do go with the 1 page/item style, please try to make sure the art matches the description as much as possible. The pic of the Hawker-Siddley Firebrand from Unfriendly Skies is not a light transport plane.

Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)
35/30/30/5. While space vehicles might seem cool there is not generally going to be much use for them. Expensive and very limited in use vehicles aren't much use from a crunch perspective. Neither are stats for a HSCT or long haul cargo ship. While runners may end up fighting or sneaking onto these things they aren't going to buy one nor really use them as a vehicle much. In that respect those sort of vehicles are better treated as scenery like a building than like a traditional vehicle.

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?
Mods please. What runner really has time to build something from scratch? Design and testing take an enormous amount of time and resources in RL and should also take that time in a game, which won't be much fun to play through. So keep it to mods please. I actually like 4th eds mod system for the most part.

Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?
Rigger book. I found having the autosofts and their mods in Unwired a bit weird and would have rather seen them in Arsenal with the vehicles.

What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)[/color]
Pretty sure 4th ed eventually saw every vehicle ever published in previous editions make a return. Not sure that was really a good thing. So long as the mix of vehicles is useful and interesting I don't much care if they are old or new creations. It has been 25 years since some of these vehicles made an appearance and in the real world some models just stop getting produced. Should happen in SR too. And could you please get the damn land rovers up to date? Why are they always a couple years behind? Rover 2046, 2068 and now 2072, all 2 or more years behind the year they are released. Why? For a supposedly high end SUV it seems a little strange that the only ones on the road are a couple of years old.
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apple
post Sep 6 2014, 08:28 AM
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QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Sep 5 2014, 11:34 AM) *
First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?


Evenly split between USEFUL runner vehicles (like van or trucks or sppedster, not Tanks, aircraft carriers or nuclear subs) and runner usable drones (no nuclear weapon carrier, no 50 old and unusable drone models vom 2030). Drones and vehicles for the starting runner and for the high end 800 Karma runner.

QUOTE
Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)


More civilian since they are more interesting for runner riggers. Secutiy and military vehicles are usually on the other side of the gun.

QUOTE
Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?


More security and military, with some spy toys and civ drones mixed in. Rigger usually need only MrGardenfix, but a variety of spy/surveillance and close combat/house/street combat drones

QUOTE
Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)


More things with more art and lesser write ups - Run and Gun was terrible, the SR5 core book was terrible. If you want some better examples go for the Cyberpunk Chromebooks or the D20 weapon books if you want to have a look on equipment guides with a far better compromise between space, art, fluffy text and rules.

QUOTE
Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)


Yes, as long as they are usuable for unnres. Aircraft carriers, destroyers and space ships are plot devices. rubber crafts, transport crafts, small LTA crafts, civilian thunderbirds are usable for

QUOTE
Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?


"Build it from scratch" systems are doomed to fail and has been incredible stupid in SR. Put the ressources into a good and extended mod system.

QUOTE
Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?


Matrix. However autosoft and pilots + options should be found in the rigger book

SYL
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KarmaInferno
post Sep 6 2014, 12:57 PM
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I want Optimus Prime.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


-k
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Wakshaani
post Sep 6 2014, 01:44 PM
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QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Sep 6 2014, 06:57 AM) *
I want Optimus Prime.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


-k


No go there, but you nearlt got Grimlock two years ago. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Pariahpaladin
post Sep 7 2014, 05:02 AM
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First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?
Really as long as there are extensive rules to modify both vehicles and drones I'd be happy. Want to put articulated arms on that roto-drone? Rules for that. Want to add a pop out Vindicator to your bulldog? Here's what you need to roll. That sort of thing.
Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)
We have a good supply of generic civilian vehicles in the CRB, so more like 40 civilian/40 security /20 military
Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?
Here I'd like to see more of all really. Even the civilian drones would give a good understanding of what you might find rolling around a wageslave's doss.
Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)
More crunch! Art is nice; but riggers are all about the toys. The more you can pack on the page the better.
Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)
Ground of course, air is great as well. Water and Space less so; but still should have a presence.
Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?
Built from scratch would be great for a 2nd rigger book; or maybe just a PDF. It's really not even an option until end game. As long as there are plenty of mods and you can tweak your drone/vehicle to Day of the Dead bus level crazy, it'd be fun.
Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?
Those should be in the rigger book. Leave the matrix book for Deckers and Technomancers.
What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)
I always loved the GMC MPUV from Fields of Fire. And nothing says style like the Rolls-Royce Phaeton.
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Sengir
post Sep 7 2014, 05:22 PM
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QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Sep 5 2014, 05:34 PM) *
DON'T DROP STATS HERE, AND TRY TO NOT GET SPECIFIC!

There are legal things when you start in about "I want a Harley Davidson K943 with a speed of ..." if that gets printed later, then heads roll. So, none of that.

In other words, we can keep stuff out of the book by detailing it here? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


QUOTE
Seriously.

Okay...


First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?
Even split is uncreative but sounds good

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?
IMO the most useful equipment are civilian vehicles (with not-so-civilian mods) and security drones. Security vehicles are useful as opposition and background (what does DocWagon send in?), and military vehicles rarely ever show up in a fashion that requires stats.
Civilian drones are supposed to be everywhere, so it would be nice to have a couple of examples. For military drones, see above. Runners like armed drones, but military typically is overkill.

So for vehicles, total (core + rigger book + pdfs) shares of something like 60 civillian/30 security/10 military would be the right direction, for drones I'd switch the first two numbers

Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)
Vehicle images are always good to have, it also helps to infer information like "does it fit in there?"

Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)
Priority on air and ground, a bit of water, space can wait for some future ebook.

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?
Given SR's previous ventures into that area, I say spare yourself the effort and us the two pages of possible powerplants (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?
Matrix book, far higher chance of getting consistent rules (and thematically, I don't consider programming Autosofts a core rigger skill)

What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)
- The legged Doberman. I know, it was originally just somebody misunderstanding what a "crawler" is, but a legged drone simply makes more sense for shadowrunners than the SWORDS.

- Renraku Stormcloud, or a similar cheap LTA eye in the sky.

- T-birds. Panzer smuggling always was a great setting piece, some rules on what they are, what they do and for whom would be nice.
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binarywraith
post Sep 7 2014, 05:44 PM
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First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?

More or less evenly split. Drones don't do much for me personally, but there's only so many useful vehicles you can do. What I'm more interested in is a workable drone and vehicle customization and design system so we can trick our stuff out properly for personal preference.

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)

Civilian style. 45/40/5. Military grade vehicles are out of the scope of 99% of Shadowruns, and printing more of them is just going to make people want to use them. Already run into this problem with the bug/blood/shadow spirit powers printed in Street Grimoire.

Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?

35/50/15. Again, most full-on heavy military drones have no real place in a Shadowrun unless the mohawks have gone truly pink, and security drones are going to be the most common thing runners encounter.

Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)

Somewhere in the middle would be nice. I still prefer the old Street Samurai Catalog style, where we got a concept drawing of a thing so players could get their heads around how it looks, a nice stat block, and some discussion of how it is and isn't being used in the world by the Shadowland crowd. It means less stuff in the book, but that stuff will be more fully developed and worked into the world.

Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)

Primarily ground and air. Let's face it, ships aren't common Shadowrunner gear, and detailing more of them doesn't give much value if they're rarely used. As for space... it's Shadowrun, not Star Wars. Two of the main systems, Magic and Matrix, don't really work at all in space, so there's not much reason to detail a bunch of stuff for it when a lot of player characters can't ever interact with it.

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?

I'd love to see it, because players love to customize their stuff to their exact requirements, and it gives people something to buy. Nothing says you have to own a Facility, after all, you can always pay a contact to custom build. However, this is the part that best serves as a PDF release. Just put the mod rules in the Rigger book, then sell the full-on custom build rules elsewhere.

Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?

Rigger book. It needs to be very, very clear that there's a difference. The worst part of SR5's organizational problems is the refusal to actually group rules tightly, so that one can reference them all easily when a situation comes up. Also, give us a definitive list of what can be run on a Control Rig, not just a 'these programs probably work' so as to make it clearer for GM's who don't have four editions of SR experience to draw on for 'common sense' as to how rigging should work.

What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)

More bikes and sports cars. The selection in the main book doesn't really give that many options, and those are most likely to be the transportation of choice for runners. Also, stats for delivery vans would come in handy, we're constantly stealing them for runs anyway.


Oh, and give us a short writeup on how chop-shops and the like work, as well as stealing and fencing cars. I have players who love to do that shit, as it's more profitable than shadowrunning a lot of the time, and it's great flavor for gang-based campaigns.
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Tanegar
post Sep 8 2014, 09:38 AM
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QUOTE (binarywraith @ Sep 7 2014, 01:44 PM) *
Civilian style. 45/40/5.

45/40/5 only adds up to 90%. Did you mean 45/45/10?
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Udoshi
post Sep 8 2014, 01:02 PM
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First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?

Half and half. Drones own.

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)
Military gear OP. Thanks war. Focus on day to day life, average police/security/paramilitary response to it, and clever uses for urban gear. 50/50/5%. Genuine military things should be RARE

Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?
As above. Drones should focus on things typically encountered in day-to-day life - household helpers, scout drones, gunbots. Don't forget the generic humanoid anthroform.

Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)
Substance over style. I miss the street samurai's catalogue, but for the love of god don't try to do anything like Attitude/Spy Games formatting. KISS

Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)
Ground+Air. DOn't leglect hovercars, but most of the boats are never used. Space drones are cool, and hazard pay is underrated, but its the kind of stuff you'll never see in a run.

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?
Bring Back Rigger 3's built it from scratch system. Arsenal's modification system is a golden standard also.

Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?
Eh. Rules for everything should be together. YOu can always expand options in a later supplement; but crossreferencing is a PAIN. If you make The Drone Book, make sure The Drone Rules are in it.

What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)
Since sr5 is a 'retconned back to our roots' edition - everything from the Golden Age, ripped off and updated for the future. Jackrabbit 2070 edition, for example. i'd like a lot of emphasis on bikes, because they're just so classic.

Closing Notes:
SR4 was pretty great as far as drone love goes. The only thing it was missing was a) clarification on whether things that come with stat-affecting mods(like smart tires) are pre-factored or not b) guidelines for making your own models c) sensor bays by model. d) Smaller drones needed love - a ferret with an SMG was an impossibility; make sure scout robots and light drones get love too - not everything needs an LMG strapped to it. Second: I'd really appreciate mixed-stat releases (or a pdf extra/web enhancement) for fourth edition, of whatever you come up with.

Seriously, Bullets and Bandages is amazing, and has ended up with some hilarious things for riggers because of it. I don't even care about the adept powers - it has a non-april fools Metahuman Drone - with two arms and two legs - for a reasonable price. FINALLY.
Also, in a stroke of 'i didn't expect that' the infusion gun has made wildcard nanites actually viable, and terrifyingly so.
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Sengir
post Sep 8 2014, 03:10 PM
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QUOTE (Udoshi @ Sep 8 2014, 03:02 PM) *
Bring Back Rigger 3's built it from scratch system.

Better: Have JMH re-write it. It can't get worse than Rigger 3.
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DMiller
post Sep 9 2014, 03:08 AM
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First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?
Even split

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)
55/40/5 IMO, save military hardware for a splat book

Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?
30/60/10 Needs both some civilian and some military, but mostly security as that’s what the runners will run against and mostly want.

Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)
Small-ish write-ups and images, say maybe 4 or 5 items per face should be good. SR4 Arsenal vehicle and drone section is a not bad layout. Be sure the detail text has important info in it (general size, seating, storage capacity, etc)

Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)
45/40/10/5 for vehicles, 40/45/10/5 for drones

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?
Mods for sure, build from scratch in a splat book. BFS is always borked so making it not eat up precious space in a core book is a good idea. If a BFS splat comes out, please make sure it can build the existing vehicles and drones.
Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?
This one is tough. Writing software of any type should be in the Matrix book, but having rigger software creating rules in the rigger book makes sense too, so if it’s not too huge put it in both places. If the rules are going to take up a lot of space, put them in the rigger book, but be sure to add a reference in the matrix book as to where to find them.
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pragma
post Sep 9 2014, 04:29 AM
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First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?

I want a lot more drones. Vehicles tend to be pretty dull for me and players converge pretty quickly on a small number of them. By the way, I'd really like to see some cheap vehicles statted up: my runners are always looking for disposable panel vans and junker jalopies with which to do terrible things. You could do worse than including a price for used cars.

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)

Like many others, I'm on board with minimizing military vehicles and the proposed 45/40/5 split.

Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?

40/50/10. Military stuff tends to break the game and be way out my runners price range.

Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)

I seem to recall liking cannon companion. That would work for me. I prefer long writeups to art, some shadowtalk about drone usage can spark the imagination.

Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)

Ground and air. A few boats is plenty. Again, including cheap options will speak to my runners.

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?

I dislike custom rules because they encourage building really unreasonable vehicles and guns (especially guns). As has been mentioned above, a really extensive and very functional modding system that included all kinds of cool add-ons, well-defined mounting rules, and sane handling of sensors and sensor ratings would be super awesome.

Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?

These are rigger toys and should be in the rigger book.

What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)

Cheap cars, bare bones panel vans, minimalist pickup trucks, other stuff to hijack, abuse briefly, and then burn to hide the fingerprints. Semi trucks, because they come up a lot. Different kinds of courier van that runners might try to steal from. Ultralight drones! I miss the Renraku Stormcloud something fierce.


Used car rules, various features you can add to a lemon as complications during a run, how to cheaply drone-ify and weaponize vehicles: the sort of hot mods you might do to make a car bomb or diversion vehicle. Rules for license plates and vehicle registration that make sense.
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Koekepan
post Sep 9 2014, 06:25 AM
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For what seems like hours but is really more like half an hour a blob on the horizon slowly resolves through the shimmering mirage and dusty haze. It is a horse, with a rider on top. The bridle seems to glitter, but as they pair draw nearer, it can be seen to have an integrated neural interface. The rider seems to slump in the saddle, eyes closed, but as the horse stops he taps a button on his duster, opens his eyes, and dismounts.

It's Koekepan.

He leads the horse to the hitching post, and opens the bung in the water barrel to fill the trough so that it can drink. He also takes some feed from the bin and puts it in a pail in front of the horse. Then he hitches up his jeans, spits some of the road's grit from his mouth, and turns. "Howdy. Thirsty ride." The heels of his riding boots thump on the wood of the tack and feed store's porch before he takes a seat by the pickle barrel on which Wakshaani's dealing seven card stud.

"Deal me in."

QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Sep 5 2014, 06:34 PM) *
First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?


"You city boys sure do think between the white lines. There's a whole world out there. How 'bout automation standards in factories? How 'bout security riggers? What if a rigger wants to whip up a temporary security grid for a bodyguarding job? Remote control rifles for when the varmints are stealin' the cabbages? Or, natural, when I wanna rig a ride here. Easier to become a horse than a combine, I reckon. For starters, I can feel if the farrier fit the shoes right this time."

QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Sep 5 2014, 06:34 PM) *
Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)


"Security is civilian. Jes' looks more scary to keep the human livestock in line. Keep the military crap to one in ten or less - we ain't soldiers."

QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Sep 5 2014, 06:34 PM) *
Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?


"Same deal. Gimme instructions fer a bulletproof sedan, or a bulletproof van; a bulletproof camera or a bulletproof sexbot. Let me worry 'bout why it's gotta handle bullets."

QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Sep 5 2014, 06:34 PM) *
Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)


"Cain'tcha split the difference? A picture so I can see what the hell yer describin', but plenty o' description."

QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Sep 5 2014, 06:34 PM) *
Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)


"However the spirit moves ya. If yer missin' any one o' them, you've obviously tried steerin' a heifer."

QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Sep 5 2014, 06:34 PM) *
Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?


"Shit, I build durned near everything mahself. Keeps the opposition guessing. Give me the parts, a weldin' torch, a wrench an' some duct tape."

QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Sep 5 2014, 06:34 PM) *
Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?


"Riggers do most o' that stuff. It's what I learned in mah second year of shop class in high school. And in Crazy Irving's daddy's shop when we had them shadow-coyotes eatin' them calves."

QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Sep 5 2014, 06:34 PM) *
What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)


"I reckon whatchoo need is a shop manual for used parts an' cannibalism. Don't them bunnyhuggers say re-use beats recyclin'?"

QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Sep 5 2014, 06:34 PM) *
There's bound to be something I'm forgetting, but these are the tirst things that tumble out of my head this morning.

Again, please remember that if you get too specific or stat things out, it's an untouchable thing, so walk softly!


"Ah 'member one time, I wanted to breed this bull, but wouldn't you know it, he wuz a maggot-with-an-f. So I got the vet to install a rig kit on him, an' I rode him all the way up to this purty li'l heifer, see? It wuz a good ol' time, but then just after finishin' the job I dumped out, leavin' him there on her, hopin' he'd get the idea. That wuz the fastest dismount I ever did see."
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Sendaz
post Sep 9 2014, 08:53 AM
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+1 ^
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Wakshaani
post Sep 9 2014, 02:32 PM
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And Koekepan gallops over the thread on a magnificent stallion. Well done! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Modular Man
post Sep 9 2014, 07:50 PM
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That was... unexspectedly awesome. Also seriously inspiring, especially the answer to the first question.
I'll be back for my own take on the questions and brainstorming.
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Chirth
post Sep 9 2014, 08:51 PM
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Nothing too original to add but another data point:

Would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?
Evenly split, or even a little bit heavier on drones. The core book had way more vehicles than drones, so it'd be fair to make up the difference. There is the potential for significantly more variety in drones than vehicles. Vehicles are (in comparison) pretty simple - one has more handling than another, one goes faster or has more armor, etc - all of which could be handled easily with vehicle modification rules. But drones - you got humanoid drones, animal form drones, varying numbers of legs, shapes and tools that can be attached to do different jobs, plus a massive variety of sizes. It just seems that they could use a little more page real estate.

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)
I'd keep military to a minimum, with maybe a 50/50 split between civilian and security. Throw in a couple of military vehicles for a taste, but save the bulk for a splat book. Throw in a tank and at least one of each air and sea military craft, and perhaps one or two others, then call it done. If you have more than 4 or 5 military vehicles, you've overdone it.

Would you rather the drones be more civilian style, security, or military?
Also, minimal military - a couple or three to whet our appetite, but the rest security and civilian. More focus on security here though, probably 70/30 since most of the time shadowrunners aren't interested in domestic help or entertainment drones (though they come in handy for undercover work or otherwise being inconspicuous, so there needs to be some)

Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)
I'd like more stuff and less art, personally. However, I do want at least a picture/line drawing of each item that isn't completely imaginable from the text description. Do I need a picture of what the four door sedan looks like? Probably not - it looks like any car. I've got art from the core book that give me an idea of the style. But the 1 seater dirigible? Yes, please. But not full page art - no larger than the MCT FLY-SPY from core.

Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)
Similar to the split with military/security/civilian, provide only a sampling of space or exotic terrain vehicles. Probably 80+% ground/air and 10-15% water, then the rest more exotic vehicles (space, deep water, arctic, subterranean, etc) probably no more than 6 vehicles or so. Water should have large and small versions of surface and underwater vessels (sailboat, yacht, one man sub, nuclear sub, etc).

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?
If there is a good system you have in mind, sure. But I think that if the vehicles presented have enough variety and the customization system is flexible, that should give most of the variety needed. Unless your build from scratch system is detailed, balanced, and flexible, it's probably better to just have a "GM decides" system on the occasions where a player wants to build something.

Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?
Purchase prices and rules for upgrading should definitely be here. If the programming rules can be fit in a usable fashion in a page or less, then include them, otherwise save them for the Matrix book - I think most riggers aren't programmers and so would mostly be buying them already made.

What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)
I'm not all that familiar with previous books and have no particular attachment to specific vehicles. But, I would like a houseboat and a motorhome. And some hovercrafts.
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Sengir
post Sep 10 2014, 12:17 AM
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QUOTE (Koekepan @ Sep 9 2014, 08:25 AM) *
How 'bout automation standards in factories? How 'bout security riggers? What if a rigger wants to whip up a temporary security grid for a bodyguarding job?

Good call, those definitely need some love
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Wakshaani
post Sep 10 2014, 04:07 AM
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QUOTE (Sengir @ Sep 9 2014, 07:17 PM) *
Good call, those definitely need some love


Ayup! While security drones were on my list, I hadn't even thought about rigged security systems, which is shameful. So, you know ... that'll have to be handled. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Koekepan
post Sep 10 2014, 04:22 AM
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QUOTE (Sengir @ Sep 10 2014, 03:17 AM) *
Good call, those definitely need some love



Danke sehr.

Kohle, Stahl und Bier - Ruhrgebiet?
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