Jumping into Shadowrun, (with absolutely no PnP experience) Options

[Techno Dwarf]

First off I just want to say thanks to the people who'll help me, this is nooooot my element at all! Secondly, I'm sorry I'm going to type all I'm going to type but I feel it can help explain what I'm looking for. My friend and I were talking about things we liked that weren't broadcasted to everyone out in the world, and she said she liked D&D when she was younger, and I was all "Whaaat? I would have loved to get in on that but nobody thought I'd be into that!"

We ended up planning a weekly thing for Saturdays where we would get together with more of our friends and start tabletop gaming as a way to get to know each other better and have a good time; but we ended up having to pick between D&D, Shadowrun, and Cyberpunk, and we settled on Shadowrun! I learned about Shadowrun because I played SR:R and loved the setting and the plot of both campaigns -- but Dragonfall especially.

Anyways with that background out of the way, I have absolutely no knowledge when it comes to table-tops and none of us (save the girl that started this idea for us, but that was a one off thing) have ever played a PnP game. Beyond SR:R I have zero knowledge about the setting, the plot, how it's played. Learning about that isn't a big deal because I feel learning it from the ground up with my friends will be a really, really, really fun experience! We do know we're going to get the 5th edition but what I'm wondering is what books we need (if any at all).

We were hoping to start asap but when I checked on Amazon for a beginners set I found out it's not released yet and comes out the 24th this month. If there is any place you know we should start than please let me know! I'd really appreciate it. Also I have no idea if we need more than dice and paper to play (let alone what kind of dice), I really have no clue when it come to this. At all.

Another thing is I don't know if characters can transfer between different campaigns or not, so if there's a run we can get that would last us several weeks would be awesome. My one problem is I have a budget I have to get and getting the game has become my responsibility, so if there's anyway to get all of that within a $60 price range, or if you can shape whats suggested around that, I would really, really, really appreciate it!

TLDR; group is new to PnP, need good runs/rulesets for 5th edition, $60 price cap

Thanks again for everyone willing to help!

[Kyrel]

The only things that you absolutely MUST HAVE, is the Core Book, which contains all the rules that you really need, as well as some setting description, and a boatload of regular 6-sided dice. I'd suggest getting a box of 36 from your local hobby store or similar. You won't usually need quite that many, but your dice pools add up.

You'll need to note down your character on something. Paper works OK, but personally I prefer to have my characters in Excel on a laptop. It's a flexible program, and you can add notes to the cells, in which you can note down the rules for the individual peaces of gear etc. Doing it this way will make your life easier. The SR rules are not always the most user friendly in their layout, so hunting for a rule during the game can be a bit annoying at times.

You don't really need to buy "adventures", in order to get started, but I suppose that they can help you get to grips with the game. I've never played any though, so no recommendations on that from me. There are some officiel "Shadowrun: Missions" that are available for purchase though. Otherwise, just look online for ideas and inspiration, and cook up your own runs.

Characters can transfer between campaigns, but it is down to the GM to allow it, and it will usually depend on both how much Karma/XP a character has racked up during its previous campaign, but also a boatload of other potential factors, like whether the character concept will fit into the campaign and the rest of the group. At the end of the day, the GM decides if a character can be used in their game.

If you can "make due" with en electronic copy, visit www.drivethroughrpg.com and see what you can find. The 5th ed Core Book is available at 19.99USD. http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/1159...rs=0_0_1700_0_0

Good luck and have fun. Wellcome to the shadows (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[binarywraith]

As a side note, I wouldn't recommend buying a hard copy of SR5. All editions of it so far printed have major misprints, typos, and just plain wrong references which have only seen some minor correction via errata. The errata have been, IIRC, applied to the PDF version, but not to any print run yet done.

[NoMessiah]

Not that 6-sided dice are particularly expensive or hard to find, but if you have smartphones, there are free apps that can handle all the rolling and interpretation for you.

[Fatum]

Are we really going to let a newbie walk right into the fifth edition as it is now without even challenging the idea?

[Jaid]

Are we really going to let a newbie walk right into the fifth edition as it is now without even challenging the idea?

are you suggesting that we tell them to buy 10 books so that they can have a complete game that mostly works with only minor tweaks required, or that they should use the incomplete and not entirely flawless SR4A only, which they can't get in dead tree format these days?

[KarmaInferno]

As much as I love Shadowrun, it is perhaps not exactly the best game system for a group with no PnP experience to be learning "how to RPG". So many damn moving parts.



-k

[Fatum]

are you suggesting that we tell them to buy 10 books so that they can have a complete game that mostly works with only minor tweaks required, or that they should use the incomplete and not entirely flawless SR4A only, which they can't get in dead tree format these days?

You most certainly don't need 10 books to run a 4e game. The core rulebook is enough to get a group started, and the rest of the core set handles the vast majority of whatever they might need otherwise. At least the fourth (while of course not being perfect) makes more intuitive sense with its character creation system, Matrix, and gear that does not have wireless slapped onto it for no reason.
Oh, and you can buy 4e books on amazon, if you're so inclined. New ones, even. I'm not sure why a group that is not certain to gather for a second game would want to, but still.

[Tanegar]

Leaving the edition wars by the wayside (Full disclosure: I am not a fan of 5th edition, but I respect your right to make your own determination on that issue)...

Welcome to the hobby! Leave your fears at the door, because roleplaying is way easier than most people seem to think.

What you will need

• Either the Shadowrun 5th Ed. Quick-Start or the Shadowrun core rulebook
• 15-20 six-sided dice
• Several friends

How to play
Your first step is to select a gamemaster, or GM, from among your group. One person may volunteer, or the group can vote, draw straws, etc. Whatever method works for you. The gamemaster is part storyteller and part referee. He or she tells the players about the scene, plays the non-player characters (NPCs) where necessary, and adjudicates the rules.

Once you have a GM, each player needs a character. The rulebook contains a number of pregenerated characters; any or all of the players may pick from one of these, or use the provided character-creation rules to create their own.

Once all the characters have been selected and/or created, you're ready for your first shadowrun! As novices, you and your friends will probably be relying on published modules to start off. "Module" is a generic term, originating with D&D (I think), referring to prewritten adventures that the gamemaster, or GM, can offer to the player characters. The quick-start document contains at least one module, and should suffice to get your feet wet. There are many others, and of course you can always write your own!

On the subject of characters switching from one campaign to another: of course they can! They're your characters, and your campaigns. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Feel free to reply with additional questions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Synapse]

As much as I love Shadowrun, it is perhaps not exactly the best game system for a group with no PnP experience to be learning "how to RPG". So many damn moving parts.



-k

Seconding. There's a lot of bookkeeping and accountancy that goes into playing Shadowrun RAW. As a first system for an entire group, it's a little intimidating. But then, the quick start rules are available for free and the sample characters aren't that bad. So, yeah, OP. Go get the quick start along with the core book.

[Jaid]

You most certainly don't need 10 books to run a 4e game. The core rulebook is enough to get a group started, and the rest of the core set handles the vast majority of whatever they might need otherwise. At least the fourth (while of course not being perfect) makes more intuitive sense with its character creation system, Matrix, and gear that does not have wireless slapped onto it for no reason.
Oh, and you can buy 4e books on amazon, if you're so inclined. New ones, even. I'm not sure why a group that is not certain to gather for a second game would want to, but still.

stupid wireless gear alone is not a compelling reason to ignore 5e. it *is* a compelling reason to ignore the stupid wireless bonuses, but that's about it.

[binarywraith]

stupid wireless gear alone is not a compelling reason to ignore 5e. it *is* a compelling reason to ignore the stupid wireless bonuses, but that's about it.

Unfortunately as currently presented, that means cutting out huge chunks of the entire Maxtrix part of the system, and working around the consequences of that isn't something I'd wish on someone without previous edition knowledge to kludge together a work around out of. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)

[Sengir]

We were hoping to start asap but when I checked on Amazon for a beginners set I found out it's not released yet and comes out the 24th this month.

Honest opinion, the starter box is a waste of money. What you get are:
- The Quickstart rules, which are also available for free on the SR homepage
- The world description chapter from the core rules
- Five pre-generated characters, four of which are also included in the quickstart booklet linked above
- Dice. You'll need a few, but it's not like there's a lack of sources (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

If there is any place you know we should start than please let me know! I'd really appreciate it. Also I have no idea if we need more than dice and paper to play (let alone what kind of dice), I really have no clue when it come to this. At all.

Shadowrun in a nutshell:

• The gamemaster describes the scene: Your team moves down the corridor to the next intersection. Peering around the corner, you see a troll in uniform guarding the door at the end of the corridor.
• The players decide what to do next, sneak past the guard, shoot him, or maybe just convince him you're the surprise inspection from HQ. Whatever your approach, the actual mechanics remain the same: Add up the level of your character's appropriate skill and the linked attribute (like in SR:R, though the list of attributes is a bit different), roll a number of six-sided dice (D6) equal to that sum, and count how many fives and sixes ("hits") you rolled. Depending on whether your hits reached the threshold set by the rules for that action, you succeed or fail at the task
• The GM describes what happens next, based on what the players did (or tried...)

TLDR; group is new to PnP, need good runs/rulesets for 5th edition, $60 price cap

You'll need

• The quickstart rules (free, bare-bones) or the SR5 core rulebook (intimidating amount of stuff, $19.99 for the PDF version)
• 20-ish D6. If you don't have enough, get the 36-pack from Chessex and you're set
• If you want to build your own characters, I'd suggest doing it with this tool https://code.google.com/p/chummer5/
• Friends, Snacks, the eponymous pens and paper.

As you might also have fathomed from this thread, 5th edition did not get an overly warm welcome from fans. For people who have played the previous edition and learned to live with its flaws, there is no benefit to be seen in moving to a new edition which doesn't really present an improvement. But for somebody who has never played, it won't really make a difference. 20th Anniversary Edition is maybe a bit more mature, but 5th will be the way forward, as much as we hate it...

[Cain]

As much as I love Shadowrun, it is perhaps not exactly the best game system for a group with no PnP experience to be learning "how to RPG". So many damn moving parts.

I have to agree with this. Any edition of Shadowrun is fairly involved.

That said, I will agree that the Quick Start rules isn't a bad place to begin, if you have your heart set on it. The 5e corebook is just too expensive for a casual player to pick up. But since the quickstart is free, there's no harm in giving it a look-over.

[Koekepan]

There is some excellent advice around here. Read it all, take what you like.

I would also advise a couple of other steps, if you're willing:

• Whoever is running the game might want to come back and give us updates on how it's going, challenges, good stuff and so on. That way many of us who are more experienced GMs can offer advice on what to do more or less of, what to try and how to solve problems. It's harder (more intellectually involved) to run a game rather than to play one, and there are tricks and tips which can be passed on to make it a better experience for all concerned.
• Set up a few throwaway mini-campaigns, with throwaway characters. Consequence free, no shame, no blame. That way everyone gets a chance to make silly mistakes without worrying too much about long term effects.
• If you are running the game and want advice crafting your own campaigns, come ask for tips. It's a deep creative field, and a few of us have a little experience with that. We can recommend a few tips.

You will probably find that different players have different styles, and so do GMs. You may even learn a lot about each other.

[Kyrel]

I'll pitch in a couple of additional things, which the books never cover, and which in my view are pretty vital, in order to run successful RPG games.

1) The very first rule of any RPG, is that the aim of the game is to have fun. The moment something isn't fun anymore, something needs to be adjusted. Unhappy participants make for a bad game.

2) Communication between the players and the GM is vital. Everybody need to be on the same page with regards to the kind of game that is going to be played. It relates to both 1) and to the character creation.

3) In terms of characters, Anti-social Lone Wolf characters are cool concepts for movies, but they suck in RPG games. RPG games revolves around a group of characters acting as a group, in order to accomplish various things. No matter what, every character MUST be able to cooperate with the other characters in the group. This also interacts with 2). In character arguments are fine, but don't let it spill over into the real world. If two characters don't get along, something need to change, and it's often a good idea to work it out outside of the game, between the players and the GM.

4) Be very careful about allowing player characters to kill other player characters, to let them steal from each other, or to screw each other in any way. Endless numbers of gaming groups have split up because one player had his character kill another player's character, leading the other player to get pissed, which end up leading to a messy circle of players screwing each other over in the game. Very mature groups can get something like this to work, but far more can not handle PC (Player Character) vs. PC kills.

Have fun and enjoy the game B)

[Tanegar]

I'll pitch in a couple of additional things, which the books never cover, and which in my view are pretty vital, in order to run successful RPG games.

1) The very first rule of any RPG, is that the aim of the game is to have fun. The moment something isn't fun anymore, something needs to be adjusted. Unhappy participants make for a bad game.

2) Communication between the players and the GM is vital. Everybody need to be on the same page with regards to the kind of game that is going to be played. It relates to both 1) and to the character creation.

3) In terms of characters, Anti-social Lone Wolf characters are cool concepts for movies, but they suck in RPG games. RPG games revolves around a group of characters acting as a group, in order to accomplish various things. No matter what, every character MUST be able to cooperate with the other characters in the group. This also interacts with 2). In character arguments are fine, but don't let it spill over into the real world. If two characters don't get along, something need to change, and it's often a good idea to work it out outside of the game, between the players and the GM.

4) Be very careful about allowing player characters to kill other player characters, to let them steal from each other, or to screw each other in any way. Endless numbers of gaming groups have split up because one player had his character kill another player's character, leading the other player to get pissed, which end up leading to a messy circle of players screwing each other over in the game. Very mature groups can get something like this to work, but far more can not handle PC (Player Character) vs. PC kills.

Have fun and enjoy the game B)

+1. All of these are excellent points.

[Fatum]

But for somebody who has never played, it won't really make a difference. 20th Anniversary Edition is maybe a bit more mature, but 5th will be the way forward, as much as we hate it...

I will frankly say that I do not understand how the 5e Matrix is supposed to operate, and I don't wish the trouble of wading through that upon newbie GMs. What will he answer to a question like "why can't the corpsec detect the wireless connection enabled on the chameleon suit in their secure installation"? See, there are already suggestions to simply write wireless off - but that's basically offering a new GM to do an unordinate amount of work for a doubtful benefit.
4E has a bunch of flaws, and being a "finished" edition not last of them - but it's playable from the get go, only with the Core, and it's intuitively understandable.

[Jaid]

I will frankly say that I do not understand how the 5e Matrix is supposed to operate, and I don't wish the trouble of wading through that upon newbie GMs. What will he answer to a question like "why can't the corpsec detect the wireless connection enabled on the chameleon suit in their secure installation"? See, there are already suggestions to simply write wireless off - but that's basically offering a new GM to do an unordinate amount of work for a doubtful benefit.
4E has a bunch of flaws, and being a "finished" edition not last of them - but it's playable from the get go, only with the Core, and it's intuitively understandable.

pretending like wireless bonuses don't exist for most things is not a lot of work. it's very easy.

also, based on how many times people came to these forums asking for help with understanding how the 4e matrix works, including something like a 30+ page thread devoted entirely to explaining the subject, i'm going to have to say that you have a very different intuition than many or perhaps even most people when it comes to the 4e matrix.

[binarywraith]

I will frankly say that I do not understand how the 5e Matrix is supposed to operate, and I don't wish the trouble of wading through that upon newbie GMs. What will he answer to a question like "why can't the corpsec detect the wireless connection enabled on the chameleon suit in their secure installation"? See, there are already suggestions to simply write wireless off - but that's basically offering a new GM to do an unordinate amount of work for a doubtful benefit.
4E has a bunch of flaws, and being a "finished" edition not last of them - but it's playable from the get go, only with the Core, and it's intuitively understandable.

Don't worry, the guys who got tasked with writing the 5e matrix (and the wireless bonuses) didn't know how the hell it was supposed to work either.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Don't worry, the guys who got tasked with writing the 5e matrix (and the wireless bonuses) didn't know how the hell it was supposed to work either.

Which is apparently a bonus... possibly even wireless...

[rythymhack]

I would also recommend reading some of the PbP adventures going on in the "Welcome to the shadows" subsection. My favorite (from a story/able to follow standpoint) is "Nothing's free in the free zone".

[Cain]

All I'll say is, I don't have more than the vaguest idea how to make the 5e Matrix work.

'Luckily for the OP, the Matrix remains one of the easiest parts to handwave. If I were you, I'd discourage anyone from playing a Decker or Technomancer, at least to start. Just give them an NPC decker contact; anything they need done via computers, their decker just does for them. That frees everyone to focus on the physical side of things.

To a lesser degree, this is true of Astral Space: try to discourage a lot of solo missions via Astral Projection. But since it's easier to make the Astral interact with the physical, a little can work out. Still, if you can keep things to just Astral Perception, you might find that the game runs better.

[Fatum]

pretending like wireless bonuses don't exist for most things is not a lot of work. it's very easy.

And what then? Everyone just gets the wireless bonus, even with wireless off?
What about the whole mess with hosts and marks and networks and direct connections and Resonance only knows what else? Is a newbie GM to handwave all that as well?

also, based on how many times people came to these forums asking for help with understanding how the 4e matrix works, including something like a 30+ page thread devoted entirely to explaining the subject, i'm going to have to say that you have a very different intuition than many or perhaps even most people when it comes to the 4e matrix.

The basic mechanic burns down to two possible Extended Tests. Difficulties starts once you get into details; which you certainly don't need as a new group.

Look, again, I'm not saying that 4e is flawless, and 5e is drek on a plate. But the whole sentiment that "old players hate it because of the changes, and that won't matter for the new players" is simply nonsensical. The flaws of the new edition are objective, and the new players will face them just like the old ones.

[Jaid]

And what then? Everyone just gets the wireless bonus, even with wireless off?
What about the whole mess with hosts and marks and networks and direct connections and Resonance only knows what else? Is a newbie GM to handwave all that as well?

whether to just hand out the wireless bonus always, or never, is something individual groups will have to decide. those of us who are familiar with what those implants and pieces of equipment have done for the past 25+ years likely give it out for free, i suspect, but either way is fine.

as to the rest, that has absolutely nothing to do with wireless bonuses. wireless bonuses exist to entice you into connecting to the matrix with all of your stuff. you don't need to know anything about hosts, marks, networks, direct connections, or resonance only knows what else. all you need to know as far as wireless bonuses are concerned is whether you have your spinal cord hooked up to the internet, or not. if you remove wireless bonuses from the game, the only impact you've had on the matrix rules is that for even remotely security-minded individuals, the answer will always be "not".