Get Your Shadow Spells Right Here, Extra! Extra! Read All About It! |
Get Your Shadow Spells Right Here, Extra! Extra! Read All About It! |
Sep 25 2014, 04:42 PM
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#1
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Skillwire Savant Group: Members Posts: 3,154 Joined: 5-April 13 From: Aurora Warrens, UCAS Sector of the FRFZ Member No.: 88,139 |
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Sep 25 2014, 05:33 PM
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#2
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
I wonder what Giatronics is and what it does. And why they have beef with the same guy Gaeatronics was fighting with in the last few PDFs?
Also, say hello to the first official Shadowrun DLC. |
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Sep 25 2014, 05:55 PM
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#3
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Great Dragon Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,082 Joined: 3-October 09 From: Kohle, Stahl und Bier Member No.: 17,709 |
QUOTE The Matrix has become the home of a number of different “friends.” [Tag: 10 AIs] That's new, innit? |
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Sep 25 2014, 06:12 PM
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#4
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Yup.
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Sep 25 2014, 06:18 PM
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#5
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Snakehandler Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,454 Joined: 28-April 06 From: London, England Member No.: 8,508 |
Yeah, the giant Giatronics (sic) typo right at the start was real PTSD trigger, dredging up memories of, well, every other SR5 product.
But overall, I would call this great value for money. No wasted pages, just meat - delivers as promised on spells, powers, traditions, and groups. |
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Sep 25 2014, 06:28 PM
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#6
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
If it wasn't meat ripped from the writhing, mangled body of Street Grimoire, I'd be inclined to agree.
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Sep 25 2014, 06:54 PM
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#7
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,973 Joined: 4-June 10 Member No.: 18,659 |
Now, now. You know Street Grimoire was going to be a crack baby at the very best. Maybe this was some sort of twisted mercy killing, the developers desperately clawing for a few more weeks to try and unbugger at least -part- of the rules.
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Sep 26 2014, 12:38 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 100 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,332 |
If it wasn't meat ripped from the writhing, mangled body of Street Grimoire, I'd be inclined to agree. Apparently, it wasn't. According to Critias, the ebook and the core book lines are completely different. I'm willing to believe him, but I'm not pleased about it. And we are still lacking spell creation rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) -Temperance |
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Sep 26 2014, 01:37 AM
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#9
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,351 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Behind the shadows of the Resonance Member No.: 17,653 |
... And we are still lacking spell creation rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) Maybe it'd put too much power into the hands of the customers. Limit what we know to what they're willing to spoon feed us.-Temperance Of course, maybe they're still also tiptoeing through their own shit for the lack of some consistency and trying to figure out how to fix it, like the drain change for AOE spells ranging from +1 to +3 with no rhyme or reason. |
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Sep 26 2014, 03:48 AM
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#10
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Apparently, it wasn't. According to Critias, the ebook and the core book lines are completely different. I'm willing to believe him, but I'm not pleased about it. And we are still lacking spell creation rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) I dunno, I've never known the spell creation rules to be all that helpful. Mostly, they just get used my munchy players trying to break the system. Honestly, I don't think they ever will, just because they don't want to let us know they were eyeballing it. |
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Sep 26 2014, 05:03 AM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
the problem with the spell creation rules is that they didn't tend to add new effects. you couldn't really make your own completely new spell idea using them, you could only combine other effects to make a spell; for example, you could decide that you wanted a different elemental ball spell that wasn't released yet, or make an AOE invisibility spell, or a spell that buffs an attribute but only for elves, etc.
you couldn't really use them to make something completely different, because no guidelines whatsoever were given for that. some things you could simulate to a certain extent (you couldn't make an illusionary monster that wracks the target with pain, but you could make an area-effect spell that inflicts pain and move it around and pretend that it looks like a monster, for example), but anything that wasn't already in there you just had to make something up anyways. it wasn't so much a way to build new spells as to customize existing ones, in that way. on a side note, as far as systems for creating your own spells, it is by far one of the least abusive i've ever seen. i'm not saying it didn't have potential for abuse or anything, mind you; just, as far as it goes, other systems i've seen to accomplish the same goals (being able to design your own spels) tend to be far, far worse. even when you did do something ridiculous, it was hard to come up with something that was worse than the basic stuff; i mean, really, what did you ever see that was more destructive to the game than a stunball or mob mind spell? you could get some nice discounts on occasion, but most of the really powerful stuff was canon anyways. |
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Sep 27 2014, 12:51 AM
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#12
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
QUOTE And we are still lacking spell creation rules. Well, we also lack the promised item creation rules. Remember those? I'll hazard a guess: there won't be vehicle creation rules either. QUOTE According to Critias, the ebook and the core book lines are completely different. I'm willing to believe him, but I'm not pleased about it. Well. I tend to favor suspecting incompetence over malice, but this is another serious screwup, if it indeed was one and not malice. First, the book blatantly claims on the front page the material was cut (in that smartass way CGL seems to consider tongue-in-cheek I learned to loathe in run&Gun): QUOTE ("Shadow Spells @ p. 2) Latest News > Some of the best stuff is left on the cutting room floor. – Busty Canyon Then, on the topic of the missing, but referenced, Melanin Control and Living Focus powers, Namikaze, member of the Shadowrun Supporters, quotes an unnamed developer that these powers will be released in an upcoming PDF, Shadow Spells (since it was to that date unnamed, he definitly had insider knowledge, though he was wrong about Melanin Control - probably mixed it up with Keratin Control). Now, maybe this was a screwup - the powers weren't put in because of the disorganisation and lack of editorial professionalism we've come to expect of Jason Hardy era Shadowrun. It seems fairly likely it was. But if so, you have a communications disaster on hand, CGL. And it'd not be the first. This bumbling along has been going on and on since the disasterous release of War, and you've always promised improvements, and it has never happened. What the hell is wrong at CGL? Because evidently, something is. Very much so. |
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Sep 27 2014, 01:26 AM
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#13
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,973 Joined: 4-June 10 Member No.: 18,659 |
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Sep 27 2014, 05:46 AM
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#14
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
the problem with the spell creation rules is that they didn't tend to add new effects. you couldn't really make your own completely new spell idea using them, you could only combine other effects to make a spell; for example, you could decide that you wanted a different elemental ball spell that wasn't released yet, or make an AOE invisibility spell, or a spell that buffs an attribute but only for elves, etc. you couldn't really use them to make something completely different, because no guidelines whatsoever were given for that. some things you could simulate to a certain extent (you couldn't make an illusionary monster that wracks the target with pain, but you could make an area-effect spell that inflicts pain and move it around and pretend that it looks like a monster, for example), but anything that wasn't already in there you just had to make something up anyways. it wasn't so much a way to build new spells as to customize existing ones, in that way. on a side note, as far as systems for creating your own spells, it is by far one of the least abusive i've ever seen. i'm not saying it didn't have potential for abuse or anything, mind you; just, as far as it goes, other systems i've seen to accomplish the same goals (being able to design your own spels) tend to be far, far worse. even when you did do something ridiculous, it was hard to come up with something that was worse than the basic stuff; i mean, really, what did you ever see that was more destructive to the game than a stunball or mob mind spell? you could get some nice discounts on occasion, but most of the really powerful stuff was canon anyways. I've seen quite a few abuses over the years. To be fair, it was better than the 2e AD&D spell creation rules, which was "The DM makes stuff up", but mostly I've seen players try and figure out how to get overpowered spells an even-lower drain code, so they could throw high force spells with impunity. This has held true for every edition of Shadowrun to date. I still say these are the actions of a company that knows they're about to lose the license and desperately wants to get shit out, no matter how much it stinks, before they do. Hearing that the e-books and the core line are totally separate sounds more like incompetence to me. There's no good reason to divide things like that, not if you know what you're doing. |
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Sep 27 2014, 10:48 PM
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#15
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Great Dragon Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,082 Joined: 3-October 09 From: Kohle, Stahl und Bier Member No.: 17,709 |
I dunno, I've never known the spell creation rules to be all that helpful. Mostly, they just get used my munchy players trying to break the system. Honestly, I don't think they ever will, just because they don't want to let us know they were eyeballing it. Forget the players, the use of a creation system would be to have consistent spell designs by the developers. Keep the system secret if you want, but spare us the arbitrary Drain codes. |
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Sep 27 2014, 11:24 PM
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#16
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Forget the players, the use of a creation system would be to have consistent spell designs by the developers. Keep the system secret if you want, but spare us the arbitrary Drain codes. Yeah, that's what I thought. I rather believe that the SR5 drain codes were made up on the spot. I think they're not going to release the spell creation rules for that reason-- they don't want us to catch on. |
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Sep 28 2014, 02:57 AM
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#17
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,801 Joined: 2-September 09 From: Moscow, Russia Member No.: 17,589 |
Aside from whining about the usual CGL quality, it's a nice little book. I'm not overwhelmed, especially by the fluff bits, but it's solid.
As for CGL losing the license, has there been any indication anything like that is coming? Who's to take over? I'm not exactly seeing a queue. |
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Sep 28 2014, 03:13 AM
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#18
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,973 Joined: 4-June 10 Member No.: 18,659 |
Quick question, anyone have any idea what that Reagent Cost Table on page 24 is good for?
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Sep 28 2014, 03:33 AM
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#19
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,801 Joined: 2-September 09 From: Moscow, Russia Member No.: 17,589 |
The adept powers near the table, naturally. Power swimming, most likely.
Actually, for Core and Street Grimoire, I figure. I see mentions of reagents, but I don't see any price table at a glance in either book. |
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Sep 28 2014, 09:09 AM
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#20
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,642 Joined: 22-April 12 From: somewhere far beyond sanity Member No.: 51,886 |
Got a chance to flip through it. Not impressed. Keratin Control and Living Focus make an appearance, but they're included in the SG Errata, so that's nice and dispells (see what I did there?) those nasty DLC accusations for Shadow Spells.
First things first: The cover is horrible. Just about the only thing I like about it is the haircut of the stomped dude. There's a few glaring errors, such as "Giatronics" and the Boston not-Merlyns apparently cannot learn spells through one formula for stun bolt, but treat them as one-use D&D scrolls instead and throw them away. Really creative use of the last name Soprano, too. And is it really O'Rilley or O'Riley, or did they mean O'rly (disregard, this is a really subjective and personal irritation). Onwards then! NPCs apparently do not need to follow rules, as impressively shown by a certain Kincaid (forgot the first name), who apparently gets his kicks from having a sorcery skill group at rating 14, but maybe he traded the title bar of his table for that, just like the adept before him who has gymnastics at 14 and unarmed combat at 16 (and yes, I've checked. He has Improved Ability 2 for that skill, making the notation 16 (18)). Another thing that amazes me is the appearance of HMHVV specific buff spells. That's great, I guess. Finally players have the ability to make their opponents stronger if they're not challenged enough. Or it's a GM-only tool. Or a not-so-subtle foreshadowing for the return of PC Infected. Other people mentioned the lone and weirdly placed reagents table, slap dash in the middle of adept powers. That confused the hell out of me, but then I remembered the average layout of SR5 books, so that lessened my surprise. BUT! There are also good things. A bit of fluff about a metaplane. These kind of things always interest me, and it's okay-ish, apart from how people apparently funnel energy from there and get in trouble with crystal alien spirits. I'm not sure if I want precedence of direct connections to the metaplanes in the fluff, but there it is. Some may like it, others may not, but it's interesting either way in my opinion. Then we have four new traditions, complete with preferred spells, although for some reason only vikings have preferred adept powers. That's a shame. Not all the magical groups are as uninspired as the somethingsomethingblasters, and they're diverse and international from what I saw. Threats are also a good thing to have. I really loved Threats 1 and 2, and while this book only contains magical things, it's to be expected. No arguments here. Short writeups, lots of adventure hooks. Some beloved spells make comebacks, but I havent' checked for the (probably inevitable) rules issues. I've read at other places that some of these spells are only resisted with one attribute again, which would make them problematic. But there's a lot, and a good amount of adept powers, too. Overall, I also liked the artwork used inside, and the price point is good, as it was for most PDF-products. Won't buy it myself, since I don't play SR5, but depending on your tastes, it could be for you. 6 out of 10, with -1 for layout and typos and another -1 for ignoring the rules for NPCs. |
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Sep 29 2014, 10:33 AM
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#21
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 |
Also, say hello to the first official Shadowrun DLC. I'd say there have already been a few. Digital Grimoire was, arguably, the first, and "Way of the Adept" was the first "pay $5 to increase your character's power by 10%" DLC. The spell creation rules is what made me want to play a mage. In all Shadowrun editions they were the best custom creation rules and the only ones that stayed mostly in check. It's sad that they were removed. |
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Sep 29 2014, 11:47 AM
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#22
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Great Dragon Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,082 Joined: 3-October 09 From: Kohle, Stahl und Bier Member No.: 17,709 |
As for CGL losing the license, has there been any indication anything like that is coming? Not to my knowledge. Suspicions that CGL are trying to squeeze some more milk from a cow they know is dying (or being repossessed) have been leveled since the Year of Chaos, but they still have the license. |
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Sep 29 2014, 12:30 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 702 Joined: 21-August 08 From: France Member No.: 16,265 |
AFAIK, SR 5 is a great commercial success.
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Sep 29 2014, 02:07 PM
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#24
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
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Sep 29 2014, 03:18 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 702 Joined: 21-August 08 From: France Member No.: 16,265 |
Maybe I've made a bad translation from french.
I've meant they sell a lot of SR5 books. |
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