PC's contracting Vamparism, How could I do it? Options

[Mystweaver]

So, being a nasty piece of work that I am, how could I go about turning one of my PC's into a vampire? Would a single bite do the trick (I think not).

If someone could direct me to where I might find the rules that would be awesome (SR4).

Thank you

[sk8bcn]

wanna throw the character out of the game?

[bannockburn]

There's a whole big rules thingy in Runner's Companion about how this would work. Starts on p. 82.
I recommend consulting with the player in question, or bad blood (pun intended) may arise from this.

[Sendaz]

.
I recommend consulting with the player in question, or bad blood (pun intended) may arise from this.

Indeed, as party harmony is at stake. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[nezumi]

Seduction is a great tool, don't forget. Alternatively, most runners don't watch their food and drink as closely as they should.

[Mystweaver]

wanna throw the character out of the game?

Hell no, just like to think of complications... Free Spirit and Shapeshifter already in the group. Should keep things even more interesting with more eek factor (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I admit this is one hell of a complication but still - should be fun.

[Neraph]

wanna throw the character out of the game?

I don't get the Infected hate. Infected are amazing.

[Mystweaver]

I don't get the Infected hate. Infected are amazing.

I agree... even being a ghoul is quite an interesting character...

Anyway... just read up those rules and I'm wondering how infecting an adept would work?

It mentions that after they are transformed their Essence and Magic are reduced to 1. Does feeding increase both or just Essence (so they would have to re-buy Magic points?).

Likewise, how would being transformed into a vampire effect a street sam? Would the regeneration power destroy all implants? If they had an essence of less than 1, I presume it would be increased to 1?

[bannockburn]

YMMV.

Edit: Mystweaver, I'll have to read up on that when I'm home from work. Per default, you'd lose all the magic points as an adept, yes, and would probably have to re-buy. It's not a lot of fun becoming infected.
More on that later, unless someone else has an answer now.

[Mystweaver]

YMMV.

Edit: Mystweaver, I'll have to read up on that when I'm home from work. Per default, you'd lose all the magic points as an adept, yes, and would probably have to re-buy. It's not a lot of fun becoming infected.
More on that later, unless someone else has an answer now.

Funky chicken...

Pretty sure my assumptions are correct...

I also presume that the attribute modiers that come with becoming infected are merely adjustments to maxiums and not instant gains?
i.e. Becoming a vampire would not instantly give you +2 Agility & Reaction but allow you to go up to 8 as a maximum.

[Neraph]

Your Magic goes down to a 1. You'll need to feed up to get your Magic rating back, as your new Magic Maximum is equal to your Current Essence. This allows "Special Infected" (what I use to refer to Infected with Essence Drain) to go higher than the normal maximum of 6 for Magic rating.

Now that you have Essence Drain, though, you can use it to boost your Magic rating up once every 12 hours. Feed on Essence up to your new cap of 12, spend it all on Essence Drain to boost your Magic attribute 6 points for 12 hours, and at the end of that time you have 6 Essence left. Rinse, lather, repeat for temporary power, recouping some of those Power Points lost to the infection in the first place.

Additionally, since you're gaining Magic/PP and losing them frequently, this allows Adepts to custom tailor the PP they're using, essentially making them extreme jacks of all trades.

I also presume that the attribute modiers that come with becoming infected are merely adjustments to maxiums and not instant gains?
i.e. Becoming a vampire would not instantly give you +2 Agility & Reaction but allow you to go up to 8 as a maximum.

Incorrect. Those immediately affect your current attributes and your maximums, allowing you to additionally recalculate your augmented maximums as well (EX: human vampire's new Reaction is +3 from normal, natural maximum is now 8, augmented maximum is 12).

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I don't get the Infected hate. Infected are amazing.

Infected are an amazingly bad idea as PC's, yes...

[bannockburn]

All matters of personal taste aside, here are a few answers:

It mentions that after they are transformed their Essence and Magic are reduced to 1.

Technically, their Essence is raised to 1, since they first need to be fully emptied to 0, before the Infection power can be used. Afterwards, the character awakens with 1 Essence, and more importantly, 1 Magic, even if they weren't magical before. This does not net them any magic user qualities, though.

Does feeding increase both or just Essence (so they would have to re-buy Magic points?).

Feeding does not raise Magic on its own. Refer to what Neraph said for how that works exactly.

Likewise, how would being transformed into a vampire effect a street sam? Would the regeneration power destroy all implants? If they had an essence of less than 1, I presume it would be increased to 1?

First of all, heavily augmented characters only transform quicker since the vamp in question needs less time to suck them dry.
For the question about their augmentations, refer to p. 77, Runner's Companion, "The Infected and Augmentation". In short: only Deltaware can be installed after the change, and no Genetech is available. I'd interpret it in such a way that every piece of 'ware they have during their change will be violently expelled from their bodies. They then start with the standard attribute bonuses for their type of infection instead, and with 1 Essence, as well as a really good hankering for a hemoglobin cocktail.

[Mystweaver]

Your Magic goes down to a 1. You'll need to feed up to get your Magic rating back, as your new Magic Maximum is equal to your Current Essence. This allows "Special Infected" (what I use to refer to Infected with Essence Drain) to go higher than the normal maximum of 6 for Magic rating.

Now that you have Essence Drain, though, you can use it to boost your Magic rating up once every 12 hours. Feed on Essence up to your new cap of 12, spend it all on Essence Drain to boost your Magic attribute 6 points for 12 hours, and at the end of that time you have 6 Essence left. Rinse, lather, repeat for temporary power, recouping some of those Power Points lost to the infection in the first place.

Additionally, since you're gaining Magic/PP and losing them frequently, this allows Adepts to custom tailor the PP they're using, essentially making them extreme jacks of all trades.


Incorrect. Those immediately affect your current attributes and your maximums, allowing you to additionally recalculate your augmented maximums as well (EX: human vampire's new Reaction is +3 from normal, natural maximum is now 8, augmented maximum is 12).

That seems awesome! I see this is all under essence drain in sr4a. Thanks for pointing out this.

[binarywraith]

I don't get the Infected hate. Infected are amazing.

Trusting the infected is a surefire way to end up getting eaten. Not to mention that HMHVV has what, a low single digits 'survival' rate if you count ghouls and vampires as survivors?

[Sephiroth]

Trusting the infected is a surefire way to end up getting eaten. Not to mention that HMHVV has what, a low single digits 'survival' rate if you count ghouls and vampires as survivors?

Oh don't be silly. Trusting any Infected on your team that isn't a feral ghoul is a perfectly legitimate way to not get eaten. I mean, at least one of the other PC's in the PbP game I'm in 'trust' my nosferatu mage, and said PC hasn't gotten eaten so far.

Sapient Infected PC's aren't mindless mongrels with no self control. Everyone, vampire or not, knows that trying to attack your own team is a quick path to suicide.

[Smilin_Jack]

I don't get the Infected hate. Infected are amazing.

Heh, anything that lives by eating members of same species I am (even if I hate them) - gets killed, lit on fire, then has its ashes pissed on ASAP.

Cause, you know, doing anything else gives me flashbacks of the horrid ear gouging, brain melting, makes me want to kill a fucker wailing refrain of "BUT HE HAS A SOUL NOW!" from BtVS.

[binarywraith]

Oh don't be silly. Trusting any Infected on your team that isn't a feral ghoul is a perfectly legitimate way to not get eaten. I mean, at least one of the other PC's in the PbP game I'm in 'trust' my nosferatu mage, and said PC hasn't gotten eaten so far.

Sapient Infected PC's aren't mindless mongrels with no self control. Everyone, vampire or not, knows that trying to attack your own team is a quick path to suicide.

No dice. Anything that considers fellow runners as emergency rations gets a polite send off in a high caliber lobotomy.

You want an example, go dig up the novels and read up about wendigoes. Sam Verner could tell you a lot...

[binarywraith]

Edit : Doublepost.

[Sephiroth]

No dice. Anything that considers fellow runners as emergency rations gets a polite send off in a high caliber lobotomy.

You want an example, go dig up the novels and read up about wendigoes. Sam Verner could tell you a lot...

I've read about wendigos. You have a point about the emergency rations thing. However, I maintain that being turned into food by an Infected teammate would not happen under normal circumstances (i.e. not ones involving being stranded alone with him/her for a long period of time). A smart Infected (I don't count wendigos, because they're already seven kinds of psychologically screwed up) should be aware that shadowrunners are extremely bad choices of prey. Shadowrunners are terrorists, assassins, and professional kidnappers (among other things) who routinely tango with law enforcement, organized crime, and magical threats. Everyone in the SR underworld knows this. So what Infected with any desire for self-preservation would ever try to turn another shadowrunner into a hamburger/juicebox? The answer, I think, is: not any of the Infected who are smart enough to survive as shadowrunners themselves. There are far easier prey for Infected teammates to eat than your hyperdeadly street sam/crazy mage/well-armed rigger/all-knowing hacker/<insert other character archetype here>.

[Kyrel]

Mystweaver. You should read up on the Infected in Running Wild too. There's a decent section on them in that book. Also, there is a slight but important revision rgd. the rules description of how the Infection power works. Specifically a character with a Magic rating higher than 1, keep their own rating after the initial change. If they have a Magic Rating of 0, it's increased to 1. This screws a Magic reliant character over rather a lot less, if they become Infected.

[binarywraith]

I've read about wendigos. You have a point about the emergency rations thing. However, I maintain that being turned into food by an Infected teammate would not happen under normal circumstances (i.e. not ones involving being stranded alone with him/her for a long period of time). A smart Infected (I don't count wendigos, because they're already seven kinds of psychologically screwed up) should be aware that shadowrunners are extremely bad choices of prey. Shadowrunners are terrorists, assassins, and professional kidnappers (among other things) who routinely tango with law enforcement, organized crime, and magical threats. Everyone in the SR underworld knows this. So what Infected with any desire for self-preservation would ever try to turn another shadowrunner into a hamburger/juicebox? The answer, I think, is: not any of the Infected who are smart enough to survive as shadowrunners themselves. There are far easier prey for Infected teammates to eat than your hyperdeadly street sam/crazy mage/well-armed rigger/all-knowing hacker/<insert other character archetype here>.

I think you are underestimating just how much of a motivating force all-encompassing hunger is. Especially when you can't just go order a cheeseburger somewhere. Hell, how's your PC infected supposed to survive if you get stuck on a stakeout or deep cover op longer than a couple days? Much as I hate to quote it, Vampire:The Masquerade covered most of these problems in detail, and their walking corpses don't even need to kill anyone to feed.

[Sephiroth]

I think you are underestimating just how much of a motivating force all-encompassing hunger is. Especially when you can't just go order a cheeseburger somewhere. Hell, how's your PC infected supposed to survive if you get stuck on a stakeout or deep cover op longer than a couple days? Much as I hate to quote it, Vampire:The Masquerade covered most of these problems in detail, and their walking corpses don't even need to kill anyone to feed.

In the case of a long stakeout or deep cover op, it seems like said PC Infected would need to make suggestions to his/her team to try a different tactic to accomplish the goal, or at least put him/her in a different role than surveillance etc. They can cover their tracks by passing it off as needing regular treatments for a digestive disorder or similar if they want to keep their nature a secret from their teammates, but ultimately that kind of mission would be no more feasible for the Infected than a similarly long-term stakeout in the desert would be for a normal metahuman. A good runner team will take that into account, regardless of whether they know (or care) about the specific reasons why the PC can't do said long stakeout/undercover op.

As for your first point, to me it is not that I think hunger is a minor or trifling motivator - it is very powerful, and I understand that. But by default, you play in an enormous metroplex where there are easy pickings for Infected, gang members, murderers, and so on practically everywhere. And if he/she wants to be sure not to draw any heat from rent-a-cops, literally all they have to do is take public transportation down to the Puyallup or Redmond Barrens and hunt there. So it seems to me that hunger and starvation shouldn't be a big problem, at least for a skilled shadowrunner Infected.

[binarywraith]

In the case of a long stakeout or deep cover op, it seems like said PC Infected would need to make suggestions to his/her team to try a different tactic to accomplish the goal, or at least put him/her in a different role than surveillance etc. They can cover their tracks by passing it off as needing regular treatments for a digestive disorder or similar if they want to keep their nature a secret from their teammates, but ultimately that kind of mission would be no more feasible for the Infected than a similarly long-term stakeout in the desert would be for a normal metahuman. A good runner team will take that into account, regardless of whether they know (or care) about the specific reasons why the PC can't do said long stakeout/undercover op.

So, effectively useless for one of the major parts of many runs, got it.

As for your first point, to me it is not that I think hunger is a minor or trifling motivator - it is very powerful, and I understand that. But by default, you play in an enormous metroplex where there are easy pickings for Infected, gang members, murderers, and so on practically everywhere. And if he/she wants to be sure not to draw any heat from rent-a-cops, literally all they have to do is take public transportation down to the Puyallup or Redmond Barrens and hunt there. So it seems to me that hunger and starvation shouldn't be a big problem, at least for a skilled shadowrunner Infected.

Sure, and your team is going to be okay with you going out to commit extracurricular murders among the people they have to blend in with and do business with to maintain the very off-the-books lifestyle that makes them useful as shadowrunners. That seems like a -great- plan that nobody would have any problems with.

[Sephiroth]

So, effectively useless for one of the major parts of many runs, got it.

That is not what I said. I personally have also never seen any shadowrun adventure that required a team to stay together in general with no breaks for 96 hours or longer (including sleeping together), let alone do stakeout together for that long.

Sure, and your team is going to be okay with you going out to commit extracurricular murders among the people they have to blend in with and do business with to maintain the very off-the-books lifestyle that makes them useful as shadowrunners. That seems like a -great- plan that nobody would have any problems with.

Again, I feel you are putting words in my mouth. First of all, what PC is ever entirely open and transparent with their teammates? Literally all of them are experienced criminals with plenty of things to be secretive about. That's partially where the black trenchcoat style of play comes from in the first place. Seems to me that shadowrunners are a very "stay out of my business and I'll stay out of yours" group of people. Secondly, who said anything about doing it among the people your team mingles and does business with? As I said, Seattle is huge, and there are plenty of joygirls, joyboys, isolated suicidal wageslaves, et cetera in the city for Infected to quietly feed on.