Handing over a Toxic Shaman to the Draco Foundation, How would you suggest I allow my PC's to do so? Options

[Mystweaver]

So my PC's are about to take on 4 Toxic Shamans courtesy of the Redneck adventures.

I figured if they are smart enough - or if I give them a hint; they might just hand one or all of them to the Draco foundation for mega muulah!

Two of the PC are SINners so at least they are on the grid in some shape or form.

Other than the problem of keeping the shaman sedated and getting said body across the border from the NAN back to Seattle (its more of a Redskin adventure); what would you recommend the concequences of getting paid Xmillion nuyen?

My thoughts are simply that the characters receiving the dosh would be flagged if not just by the Draco foundation but by others on a watch list of some sort.

But also, what questions do you think the Draco foundation would ask other than the obvious "Where did you find him, what was he up to and why were you there to stop him" kind questions?

Would there be any factors that you could think to reduce the award (no bounty hunter licence or some such (though I don't think the Draco foundation actually requires this)).

[Jaid]

why would they be added on a watch list for getting a million nuyen?

i mean, i know it sounds like a lot, but in the grand scheme of things, it really isn't in the shadowrun setting any more than a million dollars is really all that much in the real world. one million nuyen is probably enough to own a stuffer shack franchise (assuming they use the franchise model), maybe not even (a mcdonald's franchise today, for example, requires that you have 750,000 dollars on hand, not borrowed, to own, plus franchise fees).

do the owners of various small businesses in your setting get put on a watch list for being so wealthy?

[Neraph]

If I remember correctly, the Draco Foundation has a hitlist out for that bounty, so if those shaman are not on the Foundation's radar then there is no payout. If the shaman are on the radar then a group of shadowrunners are probably not going to be able to take four of them together.

[Mystweaver]

If I remember correctly, the Draco Foundation has a hitlist out for that bounty, so if those shaman are not on the Foundation's radar then there is no payout. If the shaman are on the radar then a group of shadowrunners are probably not going to be able to take four of them together.

A hitlist eh? Excellent... That gives it some control. I thought it way any ol toxic/blood shaman they would pay out on. A list makes much more sense!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

A hitlist eh? Excellent... That gives it some control. I thought it way any ol toxic/blood shaman they would pay out on. A list makes much more sense!

Not sure how they could generate such a list, honestly.
If they knew who the toxics and bugs were, they would just hire out to acquire them. The point was that the Draco Foundation would pay for ANY living example of Toxic or Bug Shaman. Not like there is a registry or anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Jaid]

Not sure how they could generate such a list, honestly.
If they knew who the toxics and bugs were, they would just hire out to acquire them. The point was that the Draco Foundation would pay for ANY living example of Toxic or Bug Shaman. Not like there is a registry or anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

....

umm... that's how it works.

they find out about a toxic or bug shaman. and then they put them on the list, which is functionally like hiring everyone who's interested without having to pay them except for the one person (or group) that actually manages to succeed.

so yes, if they know who the toxics and bugs are, they do in fact just hire out to acquire them.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

....

umm... that's how it works.

they find out about a toxic or bug shaman. and then they put them on the list, which is functionally like hiring everyone who's interested without having to pay them except for the one person (or group) that actually manages to succeed.

so yes, if they know who the toxics and bugs are, they do in fact just hire out to acquire them.

If they know, I can agree with that. But I am sure that not all Toxic or Bug shaman make the list - In fact I would be surprised if more than a small fraction actually make the list.

[binarywraith]

If they've got persuasive evidence that the targets are toxics, then I'd say let them do it. Offer the payment in access to info, gear, and contacts rather than cash up front if they like, and you've got a whole load of available story hooks you can drop on them. Just make sure they're aware of the need for proof up front, then if they can't provide it they sure aren't going to make any friends with the Dracos.

After all, I'm sure they've had any number of crazy runners turn up with corpses they claimed were bug shaman, toxics, or blood mages and no proof.

[pbangarth]

The reward is for living ones, no?

And if the Foundation knew of one or more, why wouldn't they just send their crack teams to collect them?

Outsource the risk? OK, maybe. But a million Nuyen buys a lot of rehabilitation and recruitment.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yes... The reward is for LIVING Shaman of Toxic and Bug Traditions.

[Jaid]

If they know, I can agree with that. But I am sure that not all Toxic or Bug shaman make the list - In fact I would be surprised if more than a small fraction actually make the list.

i'm sure you're right about the fact that most are not on the list. the will places the bounty. the draco foundation is in charge of fulfilling that. not the person that brings in someone they claim is a toxic or bug shaman. i suppose you *could* bring one in, but without some means of proving they're a toxic or bug shaman, good luck getting your money.

of course, if you can prove that someone is a toxic or bug shaman, you can probably then get them added to the list. not necessarily in the time frame you'd like it to happen, though.

The reward is for living ones, no?

And if the Foundation knew of one or more, why wouldn't they just send their crack teams to collect them?

Outsource the risk? OK, maybe. But a million Nuyen buys a lot of rehabilitation and recruitment.

ok, so you send your crack team to collect them. they have now fulfilled the conditions required to receive their 1 million nuyen. congratulations, in addition to paying for the bounty, now you have to pay for all their employee benefits.

no really, think about it. basically, unless you've been living under a rock, you know exactly how much the job is valued at. where are you finding the unemployed but highly-employable people with an extremely rare skill set that will work for less than the amount that basically anyone who's ever heard of your organization knows your organization values performing the job at? the draco foundation has literally set the amount which you get paid for doing the job. who's going to agree to do it for less on a regular basis?

[Shaidar]

why would they be added on a watch list for getting a million nuyen?

i mean, i know it sounds like a lot, but in the grand scheme of things, it really isn't in the shadowrun setting any more than a million dollars is really all that much in the real world. one million nuyen is probably enough to own a stuffer shack franchise (assuming they use the franchise model), maybe not even (a mcdonald's franchise today, for example, requires that you have 750,000 dollars on hand, not borrowed, to own, plus franchise fees).

do the owners of various small businesses in your setting get put on a watch list for being so wealthy?

I'd say that the SINner runners are going to have issues if they try to evade paying Taxes/IRS.

[SpellBinder]

Not sure how they could generate such a list, honestly.
If they knew who the toxics and bugs were, they would just hire out to acquire them. The point was that the Draco Foundation would pay for ANY living example of Toxic or Bug Shaman. Not like there is a registry or anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Isn't it blood shamans, and not bug, that DF pays on? Ares might pay on a bug shaman, though.

[Neraph]

The reward is for living ones, no?

And if the Foundation knew of one or more, why wouldn't they just send their crack teams to collect them?

Outsource the risk? OK, maybe. But a million Nuyen buys a lot of rehabilitation and recruitment.

Because Plot Hook.

[Jaid]

I'd say that the SINner runners are going to have issues if they try to evade paying Taxes/IRS.

sure, but it's not going to get them put on a "watch list". it's going to get them put on a "pay your taxes" list, of course, but once you've paid your taxes they don't really care any more.

[pbangarth]

ok, so you send your crack team to collect them. they have now fulfilled the conditions required to receive their 1 million nuyen. congratulations, in addition to paying for the bounty, now you have to pay for all their employee benefits.

no really, think about it. basically, unless you've been living under a rock, you know exactly how much the job is valued at. where are you finding the unemployed but highly-employable people with an extremely rare skill set that will work for less than the amount that basically anyone who's ever heard of your organization knows your organization values performing the job at? the draco foundation has literally set the amount which you get paid for doing the job. who's going to agree to do it for less on a regular basis?

Well, I meant that if DF knew where some toxics were, they could send their crack team instead of making a million nuyen bounty. And I know the bounty came out in Dunky's will, but he would not have put it there if his Foundation didn't need to crowdsource the search for toxics.

As far as Plot Hook, OK, but again, the Plot Hook would be best served by the absence of a list.

[Critias]

Ta da!

To further encourage an end to the use of blood magic by Aztechnology and other parties, I offer a bounty of 1 million nuyen on any blood mages captured alive and delivered to the Dunkelzahn Institute of Magical Research for the purposes of studying the effects of blood magic use on metahumanity. I further authorize the Draco Foundation to provide suitable rewards for the receipt of verifiable accounts of blood magic use, the rewards to reflect the usefulness of the information provided.

That's what we've got. Not bugs, not toxics, not corpses. Alive-and-delivered blood mages, or verifiable information leading towards blood mages.

As for a "watch list," I can only say...why? If by "watch list" you mean "Now you're in the DF's rolodex and they might offer you a job since you've proven yourself useful," fine, but if you mean it in the standard "you're in the shit now" sort of way, that seems...unnecessary.

[pbangarth]

Ta da!

That's what we've got. Not bugs, not toxics, not corpses. Alive-and-delivered blood mages, or verifiable information leading towards blood mages.

As for a "watch list," I can only say...why? If by "watch list" you mean "Now you're in the DF's rolodex and they might offer you a job since you've proven yourself useful," fine, but if you mean it in the standard "you're in the shit now" sort of way, that seems...unnecessary.

From The Annotated Dunkelzahn's Will:

In order to discourage the proliferation of toxic shamans, I offer a bounty of 1 million nuyen on any toxic shamans captured alive and delivered to the Dunkelzahn Institute of Magical Research for the purposes of studying the effects of toxicity on the physical and astral presence of such shamans, and how they in turn impact the physical and astral world.

###

As with the bequest on blood mages, the Draco FOundation is rumored to release a "Most Wanted" list to bounty hunters. Recently, the Draco Foundation has paid off on two toxic shaman claiming to follow "Radiation" and their heavily-mutated glowpunk attendants.

Portfolio of a Dragon: Dunkelzahn's Secrets, State of the Art:2064

[Jaid]

Well, I meant that if DF knew where some toxics were, they could send their crack team instead of making a million nuyen bounty. And I know the bounty came out in Dunky's will, but he would not have put it there if his Foundation didn't need to crowdsource the search for toxics.

As far as Plot Hook, OK, but again, the Plot Hook would be best served by the absence of a list.

*sigh* ok, let's try another approach to explain why this won't work.

suppose bill gates announced that he was willing to pay a million dollars to anyone who can come up with a microsoft commercial that he approves of.

subsequently, microsoft calls up your marketing company and says "hey, we'd like you to make a microsoft commercial that bill gates would approve of, but we're only willing to pay you less than the amount bill gates very publicly announced that he would pay for the exact same thing we're asking you to do".

so, who's gonna take that offer again? the "fair market value" of the service you are describing has been clearly defined. it's an open offer with no expiry date, and you yourself made it. what kind of idiot does it take to accept lower pay than what you have publicly announced is available when they are still taking the same risks? and, if they're that stupid, do you really want to put them to work hunting down powerful magicians who are most likely very resourceful, insane, vengeful, and lacking in morals? do you want them making decisions that you are going to be legally responsible for?

now, if their actions are not directly associated with you, then it likely won't come back to bite you nearly as often; if bob the bounty hunter attacks a blood shaman, he's not doing it while wearing DF insignia or carrying DF credentials. what's more, if you're not employing them, you don't have to worry about paying for damage caused when they get into a firefight with the mage and cause major structural damage to a building or kill dozens of civilians, or paying health insurance so that when they get crippled for life you're stuck paying the medical bills, or paying the medical bills while someone is in a coma and not providing any value, etc. you also don't ever have to pay for failure; if someone tries and fails to capture the target, you owe them nothing if they're an external asset. this is especially important because not only are all of those extremely bad results possible on a failed operation, i would go so far as to say that they're more likely to happen on a failed operation.

this is the kind of job that you really want to use external assets for, rather than your own. there's a huge chance of it going horribly wrong, and you don't want to be legally connected to it, or financially responsible for it, and you don't want to be the target for revenge.

[Critias]

D'oh! Mea culpa. Should've kept flipping instead of typing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Modular Man]

Jaid is right.
The bounty's out there, Dunkelzahn put it out there, and there's no retracting it.
If the Draco Foundation could retract the bounty, then mybe, just maybe, their own hit squad could do it for less. But theY'll know they've been somewhat stood up, and there are also the other considerations Jaid pointed out: Toxic Shamans tend to not go quietly! Capturing one alive is going to yield way more problems as you can't resort to overkill/excessive force/extreme violence*.

They can, as mages, also implement a few nasty tricks just in case they get captured alive so they in fact don't. Your call.
I'd let the players go with the money, though, if it doesn't screw up game balance too much.

*and that's just you. The Toxic Shaman will probably gladly break out everything. Some of them aren't exactly putting self-preservation ahead odf their other goals. Watch out for those who do.

[pbangarth]

*sigh*

What I was saying is that the Will and the Foundation are not totally separate entities, both having been generated by Dunkelzahn, and the Will would not have had to make a public search mechanism if the Foundation already knew where some of them were.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

*sigh*

What I was saying is that the Will and the Foundation are not totally separate entities, both having been generated by Dunkelzahn, and the Will would not have had to make a public search mechanism if the Foundation already knew where some of them were.

Except that the Will never included a Most Wanted List, to my knowledge. If there was a list, they would likely have been named, just as every named individual in the Will was singled out and identified.

[Neraph]

*sigh*

What I was saying is that the Will and the Foundation are not totally separate entities, both having been generated by Dunkelzahn, and the Will would not have had to make a public search mechanism if the Foundation already knew where some of them were.

I figured the List was a construct of the Foundation, in order to properly execute the Will and not have everything turn into a Salem witch hunt. The Foundation verified accounts of blood/toxic magic, and confirmed independently (through evidence or Metaplanar quests) that some Names are in fact blood/toxic, then put those on the List. At no time did the Foundation need to know the whereabouts of people on the List. It's literally a Most-Wanted List.

Why does the FBI have a Most Wanted List? For the exact same reason that the Foundation does.

[pbangarth]

The quote I found (above) from Portfolio of a Dragon would seem to support your version of the list, Neraph.

Which then leads one to think that crowd-sourcing may be the cheapest way to go.

OK.