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> Rigger Advice/Optimization
Marlowe
post Oct 30 2014, 05:05 PM
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Hey everyone, I need gobs of help Optimizing my rigger here. I'm entering a currently ongoing game that is in desperate need of a local Seattle Rigger/Smuggler. I'm basically going to be the Townie to the internationals currently in Seattle. Concept is a racer/smuggler living in the Barrens with his own repair shop that he lives above with his Dad. I've never had the chance to play Shadowrun before and am a little overwhelmed by the character creation system.
Priority System
A: Resources
B: Skills
C: Attributes
D: Metatype (Human)
E: Magic (Mundane)

METATYPE: HUMAN
B 3, A 4/6, R 6, S 2, W 2, L 4, I 2, C 2, ESS 3.76, EDG 5
Condition Monitor (P/S): 10 / 9
Armor: 12
Limits: Physical 5, Mental 4, Social 4
Physical Initiative: 8+1D6
Active Skills: Armorer 1, Computer 1, Electronic Warfare 2, Engineering Group 3, Firearms Group 2, Gunnery 4 (Ballistic +2), Hardware 2, Navigation 3, Perception 2, Pilot Aircraft 3, Pilot Ground Craft 6 (Wheeled +2), Pilot Walker 2, Sneaking 2, Software 1



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DrZaius
post Oct 30 2014, 08:48 PM
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I read this over earlier today, as well as this afternoon. I don't see any glaring errors. You may want a little more electronic warfare, or repair skills; drones break very easily. Additionally, it may make more sense to focus on fewer flying drones, and double-up on some smaller ground craft.

Did you get an RCC? They're quite handy.

You may want to grab some autosofts as well. You're not going to want to be jumped into your drones all the time.
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Marlowe
post Oct 30 2014, 09:03 PM
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QUOTE (DrZaius @ Oct 30 2014, 01:48 PM) *
I read this over earlier today, as well as this afternoon. I don't see any glaring errors. You may want a little more electronic warfare, or repair skills; drones break very easily. Additionally, it may make more sense to focus on fewer flying drones, and double-up on some smaller ground craft.

Did you get an RCC? They're quite handy.

You may want to grab some autosofts as well. You're not going to want to be jumped into your drones all the time.



Yep, Got a Vulcan Liegelord out the gate. What Autosofts are most useful?
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Drain Brain
post Oct 30 2014, 10:04 PM
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I have been away for... a long time (and this is my first dumpshock post in years), but I'd say that looks good to me!

Only thing I'd query (and take it with a pinch of salt as I'm a bit new to SR5) is whether the Muscle Toner increase to reaction will have any bearing when you're jacked in via VCR. If not, it's probably not archetypally useful, though it would be (a little) handy for meat-combat.
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DrZaius
post Oct 30 2014, 10:07 PM
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QUOTE (Marlowe @ Oct 30 2014, 04:03 PM) *
Yep, Got a Vulcan Liegelord out the gate. What Autosofts are most useful?

Depends on what you want the drone to do.

I started with 2 cars, a doberman, 2 fly spies, and a microskimmer. Ignoring the cars for the moment,

Clearsight: all 4 drones
EW: All 4 drones
Manueuvering: All 4
Stealth: The Fly-Spies and Microskimmer
Ak-97 Targeting: The Doberman (since it had a weapon mounted).

You get to pick 8 sensors for each drone (which will use their sensor rating), so decide which you'd like and grab 'em. For example, I picked up more surveillance-type stuff for the fly spy.

For the fly-spies: Camera, Omni-directional microphone, directional microphone, laser microphone, ultrasound, radio signal scanner, olfactory sensor, motion sensor

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Marlowe
post Oct 30 2014, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE (Drain Brain @ Oct 30 2014, 03:04 PM) *
Only thing I'd query (and take it with a pinch of salt as I'm a bit new to SR5) is whether the Muscle Toner increase to reaction will have any bearing when you're jacked in via VCR. If not, it's probably not archetypally useful, though it would be (a little) handy for meat-combat.


M.Toner does boost my Gunnery which is one of my most important skills while jacked in.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Oct 31 2014, 02:30 PM
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QUOTE (Marlowe @ Oct 30 2014, 03:45 PM) *
M.Toner does boost my Gunnery which is one of my most important skills while jacked in.


Please Explain how muscles can possibly have any influence on a machine that has no muscles to actually flex? It is all Mental control.
Yeah, I know, There is no Spoon. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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DrZaius
post Oct 31 2014, 02:52 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 31 2014, 10:30 AM) *
Please Explain how muscles can possibly have any influence on a machine that has no muscles to actually flex? It is all Mental control.
Yeah, I know, There is no Spoon. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


For manual operation (like door guns or mounts) it's Gunnery + Agility [Accuracy], for remote operated systems it's Gunnery + Logic [Accuracy]. He's got that van chock full of stuff, but I think you're right that he may be better off trying to boost his logic instead, since it's unlikely he's going to get out of the driver's seat to go operate one of the guns.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Oct 31 2014, 03:13 PM
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QUOTE (DrZaius @ Oct 31 2014, 07:52 AM) *
For manual operation (like door guns or mounts) it's Gunnery + Agility [Accuracy], for remote operated systems it's Gunnery + Logic [Accuracy]. He's got that van chock full of stuff, but I think you're right that he may be better off trying to boost his logic instead, since it's unlikely he's going to get out of the driver's seat to go operate one of the guns.


For manual gunnery it is a no brainer, but for "Jumped In" operation, which he did specify, it is a no go. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Marlowe
post Oct 31 2014, 03:56 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 31 2014, 09:13 AM) *
For manual gunnery it is a no brainer, but for "Jumped In" operation, which he did specify, it is a no go. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Where does it say that?
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Oct 31 2014, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE (Marlowe @ Oct 31 2014, 08:56 AM) *
Where does it say that?


Linked Attribute for Gunnery while "Jumped In" is Logic not Agility.
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Marlowe
post Oct 31 2014, 04:09 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 31 2014, 08:58 AM) *
Linked Attribute for Gunnery while "Jumped In" is Logic not Agility.


Gunnery + Logic is for making Sensor Tests. (p.184)
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DrZaius
post Oct 31 2014, 04:10 PM
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QUOTE (Marlowe @ Oct 31 2014, 10:56 AM) *
Where does it say that?


pg 183 of SR5 corebook.

ETA:

QUOTE
Vehicle-mounted weapons are
fired using Gunnery + Agility [Accuracy] for manual operation,
like door guns on mounts, or Gunnery + Logic [Accuracy]
for remote operated systems.
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Jack VII
post Oct 31 2014, 04:12 PM
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QUOTE (SR5 @ p.183)
Vehicle-mounted weapons are fired using Gunnery + Agility [Accuracy] for manual operation, like door guns on mounts, or Gunnery + Logic [Accuracy] for remote operated systems.

The question is whether jumping in is considered remote operation, as there are several references of "becoming" the drone and using standard combat rules while jumped in.

Incidentally, the freelancer whose answers essentially have become the errata for the game so far opined that you would use Agility when jumped in. A lot of people don't like that interpretation as it makes riggers very much Multiple Attribute Dependent.
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Marlowe
post Oct 31 2014, 04:12 PM
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So, augmentations for riggers are a waste of money?
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Marlowe
post Oct 31 2014, 04:21 PM
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QUOTE (Jack VII @ Oct 31 2014, 10:12 AM) *
The question is whether jumping in is considered remote operation, as there are several references of "becoming" the drone and using standard combat rules while jumped in.

Incidentally, the freelancer whose answers essentially have become the errata for the game so far opined that you would use Agility when jumped in. A lot of people don't like that interpretation as it makes riggers very much Multiple Attribute Dependent.


Yeah I've had a problem balancing the Priorities, no matter what I tried, I felt gimped at something I need to be good at.

Also, this book has been a headache to find related material in. It seems scattered all over the place. I never saw that part about Gunnery+Logic until now, and the wording used is odd. If I am the machine, does it use my agility? If I'm controlling it remotely via RCC is that logic? Does a Synaptic Booster do anything at this point or does rigging use your natural stats only? GAHHHHH! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

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Marlowe
post Oct 31 2014, 04:48 PM
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So, it seems for my Rigger anyhow, Reaction and Logic will be my most important stats?
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Jack VII
post Oct 31 2014, 04:53 PM
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If you spend a lot of time Jumped In, you're going to want a solid Willpower to resist Biofeedback and Dumpshock.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Oct 31 2014, 04:59 PM
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QUOTE (Marlowe @ Oct 31 2014, 09:12 AM) *
So, augmentations for riggers are a waste of money?


Many of them are, Yes... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) *shrug*
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DrZaius
post Oct 31 2014, 05:17 PM
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I took some reaction enhancers on my rigger- helped with meat-initiative, driving tests at a low cost in terms of both essence and nuyen.
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Jaid
post Oct 31 2014, 07:12 PM
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pretty sure the best thing you can do is start with a (used) VCR 3 from an optimization standpoint (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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DrZaius
post Oct 31 2014, 09:16 PM
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QUOTE (Jaid @ Oct 31 2014, 03:12 PM) *
pretty sure the best thing you can do is start with a (used) VCR 3 from an optimization standpoint (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Yeah, VCRs make everything about being a Rigger much, much easier. A used Rating 3 will cost you 156k and 3.75 essence, but it's likely worth it. If I got a used rating 3 VCR, I wouldn't be driving around a step-van though; that's like putting premium gas into your k-car. Get one of the sports cars or go-fast bikes that can carry a few passengers, and outrun *everything*.

EDIT: Something else to keep in mind; unless your game is particularly lucrative, some of these big purchases are 1-time things; you'll want to get the best you can since you won't get a chance to spend 75k on a vehicle again anytime soon.
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tjn
post Nov 1 2014, 05:00 AM
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QUOTE (DrZaius @ Oct 31 2014, 04:16 PM) *
EDIT: Something else to keep in mind; unless your game is particularly lucrative, some of these big purchases are 1-time things; you'll want to get the best you can since you won't get a chance to spend 75k on a vehicle again anytime soon.

Also depending upon the mayhem level of your group, these vehicles could be one use things as well. I got in the habit of having one "nice" get away vehicle, and hijacking whatever else I could get my hands on, because replacing drones the "normal" way is a recipe for going broke at my table and that was even with us pretty much tripling the nuyen rewards. Damn things were good at their job, but they broke so damn easily. Got to the point that I kinda expected that if they were deployed, they wouldn't be coming back.

Though, if going the hijacking route, be sure to be upfront with the GM and tell them that whatever they use against the PCs, expect it to be used against the opposition in short order. Gives the GM the ability to set the expectations and more easily tailor the challenge level (eg if the GM places no roto-drones with sniper rifles hovering at 4,000 feet in the story, then he doesn't have to worry about it coming from the Rigger), but also helps alleviate any misgivings due to being side-blinded by the tactic. Also gives an advantage to the player in that some of the character creation resources doesn't have to be devoted to having a drone or vehicle for every occasion, and thus you can feasibly build a supporting role in some other area.
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Jaid
post Nov 2 2014, 01:26 AM
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QUOTE (DrZaius @ Oct 31 2014, 04:16 PM) *
Yeah, VCRs make everything about being a Rigger much, much easier. A used Rating 3 will cost you 156k and 3.75 essence, but it's likely worth it. If I got a used rating 3 VCR, I wouldn't be driving around a step-van though; that's like putting premium gas into your k-car. Get one of the sports cars or go-fast bikes that can carry a few passengers, and outrun *everything*.

EDIT: Something else to keep in mind; unless your game is particularly lucrative, some of these big purchases are 1-time things; you'll want to get the best you can since you won't get a chance to spend 75k on a vehicle again anytime soon.


it's not just a matter of essence and cash; you have to buy used, because they're lower availability. otherwise you're capped at rating 2, which is good and all, but each rating point on a VCR is a big deal... and yes, it's especially important because saving up the money for a better rating 3 VCR is going to take you forever. you don't need your essence for much else as a pure rigger as well, unless you're also an adept or something.
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Marlowe
post Nov 5 2014, 06:38 PM
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So I changed my priorities around. Altered my equipment list a lot as well. Basically started over in the gear dept. Only augmentations I took were Used Rating 3 VCR & an extra data jack. Rejigged a lot of the drones and picked up a Rover 2072 instead of the Bulldog on my Gm's request. Sounds like she kinda needs my Rigger to be a Coyote between Salish and Seattle.

A: Resources
B: Attributes
C: Skills
D: Metatype (Human)
E: Magic (Mundane)

Body 3, Agility 3, Reaction 6, Strength 2, Willpower 4, Logic 5, Intuition 4, Charisma 2, EDGE 5

My skills are a little light but I used most of my Character Creation Karma to balance them out. I felt I kinda had to considering that the Rigger Archetype seems to be Multiple stat needy.

Also a follow up question. While jumped in, ignoring the multiple contradictions in the book, a rigger uses Logic and Intuition for nearly all of the skills while in VR or AR correct?

Follow up, if that is true why is reaction, a physical attribute, listed as a primary rigger attribute while piloting? That doesn't seem to follow the "mental stat" system for AR/VR actions.
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