Rigger Advice/Optimization Options

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Because Piloting (meat) requires a good Reaction... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
And defense, even jumped in I believe, uses Reaction.

[Marlowe]

Because Piloting (meat) requires a good Reaction... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
And defense, even jumped in I believe, uses Reaction.

So, what is the Linked Attribute for Pilot (Whatever) while in AR or VR Logic, Intuition? I cannot find it.
Also Using reaction, a physical attribute, for defense while jumped in is counter intuitive if the game insists that all other actions are mental based while jumped in. It would seem to me, using that train of logic, you would have either no defense test, a severely hampered defense test or just a physical resist test w/ body or some such thing.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

I'm not being obtuse I've just never played Shadowrun before and the system is rather heavy for a new player.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

So, what is the Linked Attribute for Pilot (Whatever) while in AR or VR Logic, Intuition? I cannot find it.
Also Using reaction, a physical attribute, for defense while jumped in is counter intuitive if the game insists that all other actions are metal based while jumped in. It would seem to me, using that train of logic, you would have either no defense test, a severely hampered defense test or just a physical resist test w/ body or some such thing.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

I'm not being obtuse I've just never played Shadowrun before and the system is rather heavy for a new player.

I'm not positive on Jumped in and Remote Control.
There used to be a chart in SR4A which delineated all options (Physical/Remote/Jumped in). I do not know if that chart exists in SR5. Sadly, I am AFB.

No worries. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[DrZaius]

So I changed my priorities around. Altered my equipment list a lot as well. Basically started over in the gear dept. Only augmentations I took were Used Rating 3 VCR & an extra data jack. Rejigged a lot of the drones and picked up a Rover 2072 instead of the Bulldog on my Gm's request. Sounds like she kinda needs my Rigger to be a Coyote between Salish and Seattle.

From a fluff standpoint, an "extra" datajack is somewhat cheesy; I can go into further detail if you'd like, but it may rub your GM the wrong way.
-DrZ

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

From a fluff standpoint, an "extra" datajack is somewhat cheesy; I can go into further detail if you'd like, but it may rub your GM the wrong way.
-DrZ

Why?
My Cyberlogician in SR4A had 4 of them. They are not really cheesy if you have a use for them all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[DrZaius]

Why?
My Cyberlogician in SR4A had 4 of them. They are not really cheesy if you have a use for them all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

An extra datajack can be used as a cheesy way to reduce noise penalties.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

An extra datajack can be used as a cheesy way to reduce noise penalties.

Only if you are running signal through them all in series.
Not like Fresnal Clothing is any less cheesy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Marlowe]

From a fluff standpoint, an "extra" datajack is somewhat cheesy; I can go into further detail if you'd like, but it may rub your GM the wrong way.
-DrZ

I thought it made sense if I wanted to have both the RCC and a Vehicle hooked up, that way if I wanted to go from one to the other I wouldn't need to physically unplug a cable from one and plug into another.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I thought it made sense if I wanted to have both the RCC and a Vehicle hooked up, that way if I wanted to go from one to the other I wouldn't need to physically unplug a cable from one and plug into another.

Indeed... No reason that would not work. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
And that keeps your vehicle from needing to transmit anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[DrZaius]

I thought it made sense if I wanted to have both the RCC and a Vehicle hooked up, that way if I wanted to go from one to the other I wouldn't need to physically unplug a cable from one and plug into another.

The vehicle could / should be running through the RCC, since you gain the benefits of the RCC that way (Firewall, programs, noise reduction, etc). My point on the cheesiness aspect was more, "This is an exploit that people have tried in the past while making characters in SR5; you're new so I'm presuming that's not what you're up to, but that your GM might read it that way".

-DrZ

[Marlowe]

The vehicle could / should be running through the RCC, since you gain the benefits of the RCC that way (Firewall, programs, noise reduction, etc). My point on the cheesiness aspect was more, "This is an exploit that people have tried in the past while making characters in SR5; you're new so I'm presuming that's not what you're up to, but that your GM might read it that way".

-DrZ

Why would I run my Vehicle through an RCC when I have a perfectly good Rating 3 VCR in my head that cuts out the middle man and eliminates the need for Firewall, programs, noise reduction, etc.

[DrZaius]

Well, you don't have to; lots of programs are handy to have running, plus it's useful to have your drones running at the same time.

[Jack VII]

Why would I run my Vehicle through an RCC when I have a perfectly good Rating 3 VCR in my head that cuts out the middle man and eliminates the need for Firewall, programs, noise reduction, etc.

I would almost certainly rather be relying on an RCC's Firewall than the Firewall on whatever vehicle you're jumped into, which is most likely a 2 at best.

[Marlowe]

I would almost certainly rather be relying on an RCC's Firewall than the Firewall on whatever vehicle you're jumped into, which is most likely a 2 at best.

I think I'm missing a step here. If I am Jacked into a Vehicle, directly through a cable from my brain to the car, why do I give a shit about Deckers? They have no access to the car at that point. If I am running everything (including car) through an RCC, which is by its nature a wireless device I'm giving a Decker a window into my car, the cable from my head to the car is not.

Or am I not seeing something?

[Jaid]

I think I'm missing a step here. If I am Jacked into a Vehicle, directly through a cable from my brain to the car, why do I give a shit about Deckers? They have no access to the car at that point. If I am running everything (including car) through an RCC, which is by its nature a wireless device I'm giving a Decker a window into my car, the cable from my head to the car is not.

Or am I not seeing something?

no, you're right. i don't think they got that you were jacked into the car directly.

[Jack VII]

We get it and you're not seeing something. Regardless of whether you have wireless turned on or not, half of any physical damage that happens to the vehicle you're jumped into comes back at you as biofeedback damage, which is resisted by Firewall + Willpower. Not to mention if the vehicle gets destroyed and you have to resist dumpshock to boot, which is also resisted by Firewall + Willpower. Most vehicles and all drones are relatively easy to damage and destroy in 5th.

[Jaid]

ah well, colour me surprised.

apparently 2-3 resistance dice (depending on what you're driving; your minimum should be 3 if you have an alphaware datajack) are worth opening up everything to matrix attack in their opinion.

personally, i'd say if you're that worried, buy yourself a high-end commlink, direct connect it to your datajack, and then use the commlink's cable to direct connect to the vehicle. it isn't terribly expensive, and it's far less likely to screw you over royally than opening up your getaway vehicle to matrix combat when you don't even have any matrix combat skills. in fact, i expect that not being something that can be searched in the matrix to track it down will probably help you not get into quite so many firefights as well, so as an added bonus, both your vehicle and by extension you may well suffer less damage as a result.

[Jack VII]

apparently 2-3 resistance dice (depending on what you're driving; your minimum should be 3 if you have an alphaware datajack) are worth opening up everything to matrix attack in their opinion.

Well, when you have a base pool of 4-6 dice, any amount of extra dice are good, IMO. The datajack Firewall isn't going to help you since you're not forming a persona with it. That seems pretty clear when the information on being dumpshock refers to you not having any firewall attribute if your deck gets bricked. In fact, it's not entirely clear how one is jumping into a vehicle directly through a CR since it's never mentioned that you can actually form a persona through a CR, but that's really neither here nor there, I think we can just assume that you can, in which case your FW is probably going to be a 2.

personally, i'd say if you're that worried, buy yourself a high-end commlink, direct connect it to your datajack, and then use the commlink's cable to direct connect to the vehicle. it isn't terribly expensive, and it's far less likely to screw you over royally than opening up your getaway vehicle to matrix combat when you don't even have any matrix combat skills.

I don't recall any of us saying you should run the vehicle with wireless turned on, that would be pretty dumb. Additionally, if a commlink has a cable to direct connect to a vehicle, I think it's pretty reasonable to assume an RCC does as well, so there's no reason to do it with just a commlink when you can run programs that would help on the RCC as well like Biofeedback Filter, Encryption, Shell, etc.

ETA: Actually, in reading the VR and Rigging section, I'm not entirely certain you can jump into a vehicle unless the wireless on the vehicle is turned on and it has an icon. The Rigging chapter is so poorly developed that it's unlikely there is a clear answer there.

[Jaid]

there are no rules whatsoever on what it takes to form a persona. i would be inclined to say no if you tried to use, say, a toaster, but a datajack does essentially exist for the purpose of enabling interaction with the matrix.

and the difference between directly connecting an RCC vs directly connecting a commlink is twofold:

1) the commlink is a heck of a lot cheaper.
2) the commlink is not also wirelessly connected to all of your other drones. remember, in the new matrix, you're either completely shut off 100% from the matrix with no connected wireless hardware, or you're completely on the matrix. there is no such thing as a device which is not connected to the matrix and yet is connected to a device which is connected to the matrix. yes, this is stupid. but it's also how 5e works.

also, you definitely can directly connect to a vehicle. i don't have time to look it up for you atm though.

[Jack VII]

there are no rules whatsoever on what it takes to form a persona. i would be inclined to say no if you tried to use, say, a toaster, but a datajack does essentially exist for the purpose of enabling interaction with the matrix.

I'd disagree. A datajack exists to enable communication between your brain and devices through DNI, not necessarily through the Matrix. The persona rules are rather odd though.

2) the commlink is not also wirelessly connected to all of your other drones. remember, in the new matrix, you're either completely shut off 100% from the matrix with no connected wireless hardware, or you're completely on the matrix. there is no such thing as a device which is not connected to the matrix and yet is connected to a device which is connected to the matrix. yes, this is stupid. but it's also how 5e works.

I don't think that's true actually. You can have a cyberdeck that is wirelessly on directly connected to a throwback through a wired connection if you want to hack it. Thus, a wireless device is connected to a non-wireless device. It's specifically mentioned in the direct connection section.

also, you definitely can directly connect to a vehicle. i don't have time to look it up for you atm though.

I never said you couldn't, I said you may not be able to jump into a vehicle without it's wireless being on (even through a direct connection) as it appears that Jumping In requires VR mode which appears to require wireless connectivity, based on the definition of VR. Personally, I would rule that you could direct connect to a vehicle without an intervening device if you want to, but you're using the vehicle's matrix attributes if they come into play (like Matrix Initiative and Resisting Biofeedback Damage). If you want to use an intervening device to take advantage of that device's Data Processing and Firewall, you'd need to turn that intervening device to Wireless On to benefit from the devices wireless attributes. But that's just how I would handle it.

Again, the rigger section is pretty nebulous, so YIMV.

[Marlowe]

I never said you couldn't, I said you may not be able to jump into a vehicle without it's wireless being on (even through a direct connection) as it appears that Jumping In requires VR mode which appears to require wireless connectivity, based on the definition of VR. Personally, I would rule that you could direct connect to a vehicle without an intervening device if you want to, but you're using the vehicle's matrix attributes if they come into play (like Matrix Initiative and Resisting Biofeedback Damage). If you want to use an intervening device to take advantage of that device's Data Processing and Firewall, you'd need to turn that intervening device to Wireless On to benefit from the devices wireless attributes. But that's just how I would handle it.

Again, the rigger section is pretty nebulous, so YIMV.

What do you need a wireless matrix connection for, with a VCR in your head, and a Rigger Interface installed on a vehicle? Isn't that just two pieces of hardware communicating with each other through a DNI? I am just confused by the whole Wireless Matrix thing butting into my brain/car meld. Isn't that how Riggers have been since the 50's?

Please note, I have never played Shadowrun, but I am a big fan of the setting and have read most of the fiction and setting books since back in the day. So most of my understanding is more from a flavor standpoint than game rules standpoint.

[Jack VII]

What do you need a wireless matrix connection for with a VCR in your head and a Rigger Interface installed on a vehicle? Isn't that just two pieces of hardware communicating with each other through a DNI? I am just confused by the whole Wireless Matrix thing butting into my brain/car meld. Isn't that how Riggers have been since the 50's?

The wireless thing starting in 4E started to change things pretty significantly. You probably don't need a device to put between you and the car (I would assume the sim-module in the CR is sufficient to jump into VR, although Aaron pointed out that it doesn't say that it is automatically Hot-Sim enabled (I would assume that it is)), but it can provide additional protection and some potential penalties.

So, if your character is going to plug directly into most normal vehicles (DR2) directly from his CR, he's going to be resisting biofeedback damage with 6 dice and his initiative would be 6 + however many dice are granted from whatever mode (AR/VR(CS/HS)) he using to connect. If he uses a good RCC with the right programs running, he's going to be resisting biofeedback damage with 14 or so dice and his initiative will be about 9/10 + appropriate initiative dice. The tradoff with using the RCC (presuming it needs to be wirelessly enabled) as Jaid mentioned, is that the RCC is going to potentially be vulnerable to hacking.

In some areas, it also might raise eyebrows if a vehicle is being driven without its wireless connection being turned on. The default behavior of the everyman in the 2075s is for wireless to be turned on pretty much all the time.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The vehicle could / should be running through the RCC, since you gain the benefits of the RCC that way (Firewall, programs, noise reduction, etc). My point on the cheesiness aspect was more, "This is an exploit that people have tried in the past while making characters in SR5; you're new so I'm presuming that's not what you're up to, but that your GM might read it that way".

-DrZ

Why should you run a vehicle through an RCC unless it is wireless... That is the only way it benefits, really... And wireless is really not all that great (actually kind of dumb in a lot of ways), for a vehicle, as it opens you up to attack. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I would almost certainly rather be relying on an RCC's Firewall than the Firewall on whatever vehicle you're jumped into, which is most likely a 2 at best.

Only matters if it is wireless enabled. *shrug*
EDIT: Except for Taking Damage when Jumped In. But Why would you "Jump Into" a Vehicle connected via a Hardwire? I see no benefit and a LOT of drawbacks. Personally, That is just DUMB with a Capital "D". Maybe it has something to do with the Edition Changes?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

ah well, colour me surprised.

apparently 2-3 resistance dice (depending on what you're driving; your minimum should be 3 if you have an alphaware datajack) are worth opening up everything to matrix attack in their opinion.

Personally, i'd say if you're that worried, buy yourself a high-end commlink, direct connect it to your datajack, and then use the commlink's cable to direct connect to the vehicle. it isn't terribly expensive, and it's far less likely to screw you over royally than opening up your getaway vehicle to matrix combat when you don't even have any matrix combat skills. in fact, i expect that not being something that can be searched in the matrix to track it down will probably help you not get into quite so many firefights as well, so as an added bonus, both your vehicle and by extension you may well suffer less damage as a result.

Exactly...