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> Tips for Ninja Adept?
Rayston
post Nov 11 2014, 05:58 AM
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I am going to be playing in an online game on roll20 with 5e. Chargen session is next friday. I have decided I want to go stealthy, and what is stealthier than a Ninja?

I kinda want him to be an elf, and I plan on taking both Gremlins and Incompetence : Electronics to make him somewhat useless at electronics gear.

Other than those mechanic effecting flavor requirements.

What suggestions do you have for how to build an Adept based Ninja?

Obvious things that caught my eye.

Mentor Spirit Cat (2 free levels of light body for jumping around like hes on wires)

Invisible Way

Ninjitsu Martial art (Jury is still out on this even though it is correctly named)

none of those are set in stone, just things I ran across that seemed to fit my theme.

Is any bioware worth the essence cost? Should I consider Mystic Adept?
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Cain
post Nov 11 2014, 09:54 AM
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Generally speaking, 5e adepts are more than buff enough without going bioadept. And it's harder to pull off, but by no means impossible.

If you load up on Improved Ability, you can get a huge dice pool for your essential skills. Better than what a mundane can get, for the most part. You also don't want to ignore your technical skills-- no matter how ninja-y your ninja gets, you'll still need to be able to get through a locked door. A different Incompetence might be called for.

Mystic adepts can be really powerful. Make sure you have the errata on them, first, because without that you'll be overwhelming. If you go that route, you can pick up a lot of Spellcasting for illusion spells (particularly Invisibility, although Silence works too), and summoning for spirits with Concealment. You can also now legitimately take Enchanting as a Incompetence, since you're not likely to ever need it. (I *think* you can take it as an adept as well, but I wouldn't know, since I've never tried and if a player pulled it on me, I'd smack them upside the head with a rulebook.)
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Glyph
post Nov 11 2014, 10:48 AM
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Elves are the most flexible non-human metatype to pick, since they range from A to D. Elf is definitely doable.

I concur with Cain that the Gremlins/Incompetence qualities are a bad idea. A B&E specialist should be able to do things like use a nanopaste disguise and bypass MagLocks.

The mentor spirit seems like a bad idea. A scout or infiltrator needs to be able to take out sentries quickly and quietly - not "play around" with them. Too bad, because the +2 to gymnastics or sneaking is great, and stacks with the catlike/natural athlete qualities. Rat and raven both have their own downsides, but their disadvantages are not as crippling as cat.

I only have the basic book, so I can't tell you about ways or martial arts. Mystic adept is a choice that eats up a lot of your starting Karma and tends to require higher Attributes (you need high physical and mental Attributes). They can be great at sneaking, but tend to be "squishier" in combat - doesn't quite fit the asskicking ninja archetype.

Bioware can be very useful (used muscle toner: 3 only costs 0.75 Essence), but you will need at least C: Resources, which is just not feasible. Because with Elf taking D or higher, and another Priority needed for Magic, you will wind up with E for either Attributes or Skills if you do this - neither is feasible. E in Attributes is a bad idea for any character, and an E in skills is only good for more limited concepts (like pure combat or face types).
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Tias
post Nov 11 2014, 01:00 PM
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I'd say this is exactly the reason for TAKING Cat as mentor. It offers (hilariously dangerous) roleplaying opportunity, and the wits to pull it off.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Nov 11 2014, 03:21 PM
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Though I think Incompetence: Electronics is a bad idea, it is not because it keeps you from bypassing Locks. You use the Locksmith skill for that in 5th Edition, no matter what kind of lock it is. Of course, you still need hardware (I believe) to bypass the security devices on the Locks and Doors.
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DrZaius
post Nov 11 2014, 04:18 PM
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You could go with "Incompetence: Firearms" instead, and use a Bow & Arrow or Crossbow (keeping with the Stealthy Ninja Theme). Plus, you could easily take "Distinctive Style"; i.e. "That guy just shot me with an arrow!"
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Beta
post Nov 11 2014, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE (DrZaius @ Nov 11 2014, 05:18 PM) *
You could go with "Incompetence: Firearms" instead, and use a Bow & Arrow or Crossbow (keeping with the Stealthy Ninja Theme). Plus, you could easily take "Distinctive Style"; i.e. "That guy just shot me with an arrow!"


Come on, he's a ninja......he needs shuriken! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (that said, at shortish ranges, shuriken/throwing knives look to be decent in SR5 if your strength is high enough)
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Stahlseele
post Nov 11 2014, 04:51 PM
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Also, in your case, it's especially important to mention that the clothes make the man.
Fully armored ruthenium polymer suit with thermal dampening. And a ballistic hood with Face-Mask with all kinds of audio and video enhancements built into it. If you go for stealth in SR, you go full out on it or you go home. In a casket probably.
Also, Gecko-Tape for hands and feet of the Suit. Maybe retractable climbing claws if these are available in external gear. As well as the jumpboost thingies, if you can get that without going into corpsec/miltech armor. If you go for a jumping around approach anyway, climbing stuff should also be in there at least a bit.
Basically, get every last little thing that will help you remain unnoticed but also helps you notice stuff. And get it in external gear that you can drop.
Thrown and Ballistic weapons like bows and crossbows with poisoned needle ammo are perfect for use as well, if a bit expensive maybe.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Nov 11 2014, 05:02 PM
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QUOTE (Betx @ Nov 11 2014, 09:49 AM) *
Come on, he's a ninja......he needs shuriken! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (that said, at shortish ranges, shuriken/throwing knives look to be decent in SR5 if your strength is high enough)


My Oni Ninja from 4th used Shuriken. They are fun.
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Rayston
post Nov 15 2014, 09:53 PM
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Here is my first crack at it.

Any suggestions?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lap3oea3t3o0bgz/Tengu.htm?dl=0
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Jaid
post Nov 15 2014, 10:08 PM
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ninjas use bows too. shurikens aren't a weapon, they're an annoyance designed to slow an enemy down so you can run away (though of course, in the hands of a throwing adept they are just as deadly as anything else).
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Stahlseele
post Nov 15 2014, 10:56 PM
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Aren't you getting Shuriken and Caltrops mixed up there Jaid?
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Beta
post Nov 15 2014, 10:58 PM
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QUOTE (Jaid @ Nov 15 2014, 10:08 PM) *
ninjas use bows too. shurikens aren't a weapon, they're an annoyance designed to slow an enemy down so you can run away (though of course, in the hands of a throwing adept they are just as deadly as anything else).


Depends a lot on your game system/revision/fiction (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) In SR5 they look fairly respectable if your strength is high enough, although I can't say that I've tested them in anger.
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Rayston
post Nov 15 2014, 11:05 PM
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The Shuriken is mostly for flavor. Though I agree they look "not bad" with decent strength.

I did just update his sheet a bit after some feedback from runnerhub

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0humgpossb9gn1x/T...nerHub.htm?dl=0
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Cain
post Nov 15 2014, 11:14 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Nov 15 2014, 02:56 PM) *
Aren't you getting Shuriken and Caltrops mixed up there Jaid?

I think he means in reality. Shuriken are about as deadly as a barroom dart set.

Of course, in a game where Missile Mastery means you can kill a man with a rolled-up newspaper, that can be pretty deadly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Stahlseele
post Nov 15 2014, 11:22 PM
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*shrugs* coat them in something nasty and it does not matter how big/deep the cut is.
if you draw blood, it has delivered it's payload and will have been horribly effective . . .
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Rayston
post Nov 15 2014, 11:32 PM
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QUOTE
*shrugs* coat them in something nasty and it does not matter how big/deep the cut is.
if you draw blood, it has delivered it's payload and will have been horribly effective . . .


Can someone point me at actual rules for this? It makes sense you can do it. Just could not find actual rules.
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Stahlseele
post Nov 15 2014, 11:46 PM
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No idea if that still holds true as of SR4 and 5, but in SR3, you could coat any bladed weapon, including thrown, with chemtech. And as long as you did at least one point of physical damage, the target then had to deal with the effects of whatever was on the thing that pierced his skin.
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Cain
post Nov 16 2014, 03:56 AM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Nov 15 2014, 03:22 PM) *
*shrugs* coat them in something nasty and it does not matter how big/deep the cut is.
if you draw blood, it has delivered it's payload and will have been horribly effective . . .

In reality, there aren't many poisons powerful enough to be lethal on a slight cut. Of course, a game is different. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Rayston
post Nov 16 2014, 06:13 AM
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/phh8ucmo4zffjvj/T...erHub3.htm?dl=0

Decided against getting rid of Shuriken. I will improve my skill in them after a few runs.
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Jaid
post Nov 16 2014, 06:46 AM
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QUOTE (Cain @ Nov 15 2014, 06:14 PM) *
I think he means in reality. Shuriken are about as deadly as a barroom dart set.

Of course, in a game where Missile Mastery means you can kill a man with a rolled-up newspaper, that can be pretty deadly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


yeah, pretty much. like i said, in the hands of a throwing adept they're effective... but then, so is everything else.

of course, in-game statistics may not necessarily reflect that. in shadowrun, a shuriken is not that much worse in damage or AP than a bow and arrow, reloads much more readily, and has a completely baffling but fairly powerful wireless bonus (what, i'm throwing homing daggers now or something?). also no damage cap, though that's only an issue for the very strongest people (it doesn't have higher potential damage than a bow until strength 12, and even then it has worse AP i suppose).

though i would say they're probably a bit more deadly than barroom dart sets irl. if nothing else, they've got more heft to them in most cases.

of course, this still ignores yet another point... i wouldn't say the ninja really strike me as being resistant to using new technology... it is fairly likely that if an ancient ninja were to show up in modern times, they would try to learn how to use a gun, and would make use of guns as often as the situation calls for it, just as they would any other tool or weapon.
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Cain
post Nov 16 2014, 11:15 AM
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QUOTE (Jaid @ Nov 15 2014, 10:46 PM) *
of course, this still ignores yet another point... i wouldn't say the ninja really strike me as being resistant to using new technology... it is fairly likely that if an ancient ninja were to show up in modern times, they would try to learn how to use a gun, and would make use of guns as often as the situation calls for it, just as they would any other tool or weapon.

Ninjas are largely a myth.

The ninja we think of is based on several sources, some of which are purely fictional. For example, they never ran around in black costumes. That was created for Japanese theater-- they dressed the stagehands in black so the audience wouldn't see them. When they needed "invisible" assassins, they came up with the idea of dressing them in black, too, so they could pop out of nowhere and be surprising.

"Real" ninjas were mostly based on peasant assassins, who used a lot of disguise to sneak up on people. And as peasants, they used whatever peasant weapons they could get their hands on. If they could lay hands on teppo (Japanese muskets), they would assuredly use them. The idea that ninja won't use guns is pure fiction, based on Westerners getting the idea of secretive assassins and honor-bound samurai mixed up.
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Stahlseele
post Nov 16 2014, 11:43 AM
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QUOTE (Cain @ Nov 16 2014, 04:56 AM) *
In reality, there aren't many poisons powerful enough to be lethal on a slight cut. Of course, a game is different. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

more than enough O.o
especially in the panasiatic space of the world.
fugu is one example, some jellyfish and octopi.
hell, go to ausfalia and you will find several spiders and snakes with toxins strong enough to do just that.
there are even more things with strong enough poisons to do that, if i remember correctly, but they are just too small to pierce the skin of most things to deliver the fatal dose.
so if you were to help that along a bit, you'd be all set. and then of course, there's still the old bacteria you could use for a slow and painfull death . .
ok, in SR, the bacteria stuff probably won't work as well anymore because of the advanced medical technologies . .

now, what do the poison rules say about how strong what poison is and how to apply chemtech to bladed weapons in SR4/5? anybody know?
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Cain
post Nov 16 2014, 12:12 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Nov 16 2014, 03:43 AM) *
more than enough O.o
especially in the panasiatic space of the world.
fugu is one example, some jellyfish and octopi.
hell, go to ausfalia and you will find several spiders and snakes with toxins strong enough to do just that.
there are even more things with strong enough poisons to do that, if i remember correctly, but they are just too small to pierce the skin of most things to deliver the fatal dose.
so if you were to help that along a bit, you'd be all set. and then of course, there's still the old bacteria you could use for a slow and painfull death . .
ok, in SR, the bacteria stuff probably won't work as well anymore because of the advanced medical technologies . .

now, what do the poison rules say about how strong what poison is and how to apply chemtech to bladed weapons in SR4/5? anybody know?

Well, I should have been clearer. Most of the poisons you mention don't last very long when exposed to open air. Curare, for example, is extremely toxic, enough so that an arrowhead dipped in it could kill a large animal. However, it didn't last long, you had to treat your arrow just before you fired it. And even if the poison lasted for a while, it could get wiped off easily, so a pile of poisoned shuriken sitting in your pocket could have the poison come off from being jostled around.

Bacteria is somewhat different. They can survive in the open if they have something to feed on, so if you dip your shuriken in dung, you can give someone a nasty staph infection. Of course, that won't kill someone right away, so it's of dubious use in a fight.
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Umidori
post Nov 16 2014, 02:18 PM
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Wait, "Tengu"? Shouldn't that make you a sōhei or yamabushi, rather than a ninja? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I've actually been tinkering on and off with an full blown karasu tengu changeling in 4E ever since I finished my T'skrang Taildancer project, but I keep hitting snags and getting sidetracked halfway through researching mechanical solutions. Pity 5E isn't going to see advanced character options for a long time still, but hey - playing a Tengu in name, if not in actual physicality, still nets you mega brownie points in my book.

~Umi
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