 Summoning a Familiar at Char Gen, ...can it be done and twinked |
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 May 7 2004, 11:37 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 975  |
SO I was thinking of making a conjuring aspected adept, level one initate using the familiar ordeal and taking channelling. So is it possible and what would be the the limit on the ally? It just hit me when I was reading the Twink thread.
The Eggman |
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May 7 2004, 11:39 PM
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#2
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
You cannot take an Ordeal during chargen to initiate. Nor can you join a group.
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May 7 2004, 11:47 PM
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#3
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
As Kanada Ten said, it cannae be done.
The Walrus |
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May 8 2004, 12:05 AM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 975 |
sigh... I'll have to lose a magic point then.... but an unlimited use spirit and channelling would be worth it.
The Eggman |
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May 8 2004, 12:06 AM
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#5
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
It's practically required for a Conjuring adept, though I recommend Invoking if you go the Shamanic route.
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May 8 2004, 12:29 AM
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#6
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
Kanada Ten and Kagetenshi are both wrong.
You're free to initiate, including the use of a group or ordeal, as per the rules on page 15 of the Shadowrun Companion. Spell Points are treated as Karma in all ways regarding magic. It is dependant upon GM approval, however. You're going to need at least 13 Spell Points to initiate (3 to join a group, 9 to initiate with the Familiar Ordeal), leaving you with a max of 37 Spell Points with which to design your familiar. Just follow the normal rules for creating an ally spirit that way. Channeling cannot be used with an Ally Spirit, however, just like Watchers. They don't provide Services so you can't spend them to Channel one. Overall, you'll wind up with a relatively weak Ally Spirit you won't be able to channel (but who cares when you have other spirits on hand), but it's not a necessarily a bad choice for an aspected conjurer, especially if you have a cool background in mind for one. I'd rather focus on initiating three times (grabbing Channeling, Invoking, and either Masking or Centering) and then spend the last two Spell Points you get for free on a force 1 Spirit Focus or something like that for a little extra kick. |
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May 8 2004, 12:48 AM
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#7
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Oh man, that's what I get for using NSRCG. CharGen rules atrophy. I don't think I'd allow either without a good reason (though straight Summoner is a pretty good reason).
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May 8 2004, 01:00 AM
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#8
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
It's questionable whether or not you can even initiate at chargen, as you mention.
~J |
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May 8 2004, 01:03 AM
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#9
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Er, where do you see this? Page 15 of SRC is about using build points on skills and resources, and begins talking about Edges and Flaws. Page 14 is about Magic and spell points, but it says to use the "All the standard rules for spending spell and Power Points apply, as per SR3." Is it somewhere in MitS? I don't see it there either, but it might just be me being blind again. |
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May 8 2004, 01:07 AM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 975 |
Ah... that sucks... I can't learn spells so my ally wont have socery, and without being able to use channelling it just dosent make him worth it. Maybe just start with night one, albino, color blind, exceptional attribute cha... hmm what am i missing? I 'm at work so this is all from the top of my head. Weapon focus is a must an 1.99 BI geased off. Maybe Synaptac accelerators and mnem enhancers, enhanced articulation. What else?
The Eggman |
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May 8 2004, 01:14 AM
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#11
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
It's under "Resources" on page 15. Behold the power of Shadowrun's organization! And like I said, Czar, it's better to blow your free points on initiating three times leaving you with two Spell Points to piss away (or you could buy 11 more points for 275,000 nuyen to initiate a fourth time). Alternatively, you can trade in all 35 Spell Points to get 7 Build Points back if using the BP System so you can get some other perks. Trauma Dampers are a god-send for conjurers, too. Any spirit that causes Light Drain (such as Watchers or spirits of a Force less than half your Charisma) effectively become "free" to conjure. :) Lowers the number of successes you need to completely shrug off Drain by two (since you only need to get it down to Light now), too. And unless you have a specific tradition in mind, I'll also recommend considering a Wujen. Spirits of the Elements have some really cool powers (if not as diverse as nature spirits), especially since you lack an active use of Sorcery, and with Invoking you're free to drag them out of their domains. And even then, you still have Spirits of Man to rely on in a pinch. :) |
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May 8 2004, 01:30 AM
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#12
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Yeah, btu be careful of wujen, a fair amount of the time it can really suck finding the elements necessary on the fly to summon them.
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May 8 2004, 01:31 AM
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#13
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
Which, again, is why it's nice that they have Spirits of Man to rely on in those cases. And as long as you get a nice Lifestyle near a public park or the like, you shouldn't have much trouble scoring a Manitou at the very least. If you prefer Salamanders or Gnomes, Hell's Kitchen isn't a bad spot to have a Lifestyle (or just visit) either. You might even be able to use the geysers to snag an Undine.
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May 8 2004, 01:59 AM
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#14
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Right, summoning isnt the issue, USING them is. according to MITS pg 105 under the section Domains, elemental spirits cannot leave the elemental doman around which they were summoned. Salamanders cannot leave the Hell's Kitchen hot spots, nor can the Undine leave the area of the geyesrs. They are very restrictive, unless of course you summon a great form, but that's an entirely different issue.
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May 8 2004, 02:01 AM
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#15
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Wujen summoners are best used defensively by corporate security and such. I imagine Wuxing designs their buildings with Wujen domains in mind.
"Oh, look at all the beautiful decorations! Is that a babbling spring in the middle of the office entry?" |
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May 8 2004, 02:17 AM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
And apparently, you completely missed the part about Invoking. So no, it's not an entirely different issue. It's one that was already covered and an extension thereof. |
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May 8 2004, 02:21 AM
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#17
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Not when my entire post was just talking about normal spirits of the elements. I made no mention of invoking, and specifically added that last line to show that I was NOT talking about invoking, that invoking was different. Jeez.
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May 8 2004, 10:29 AM
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#18
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
I agree with you, although your math is somewhat whacked. (How does 9+3=13?) Initiating at chargen with the familiar ordeal costs at-least 21 spell points. 3 to join a group, 9 to initiate, meaning the familiar must cost at-least 9 spell points. For the familiar: I'd personally spend 5 to get it to force 2, give it Talismongering 6 for another 3, and spend 1 to give it another form. Spending 15 on the familiar to get it to F3 is possibly worth it if you can afford it. F2 with sense link (10 karma) works-out well too. As for not being able to channel an ally: Allys and Watchers do provide services to their masters, wether you consider that oweing services to the master is another matter. That interpretation does clear-up some wording, however, so I'm happy with it. (also: Great form spirits give you nicer powers to play around with than ally spirits can) If you want Channeling then Invoking is definately another top priority due to the Immunity(Normal Weapons) you get when Channeling great-form spirits. Foci (and your ally's aid power) help greatly when channeling as you can use the dice they give both on the Channeling attempt and the drain resistance. An Elf with maxxed-out charisma, a force 3 ally, and a trauma damper can on average take the drain from channeling even a reasonable-force (4) great-form spirit. |
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May 8 2004, 03:38 PM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
Well, I suppose you could channel an ally spirit, but it would be an incredibly stupid idea since it would be released from your service upon completition of the task.
And leave my math out of this. :P |
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May 8 2004, 04:02 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 515 Joined: 10-April 04 From: Chicago, IL...Ich vermisse Deutschland. Member No.: 6,230 |
Wait a sec, how can a conjurer invoke? It requires a jaunt to the metaplanes, which a conjurer can't do as they can't project.
OTOH, why does a conjuring adept even get spell points? No spells should = no spell points. Aside from that, summoning a familiar can be possible. Maybe use the buildpoints as spell points. Don |
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May 8 2004, 04:06 PM
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#21
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
Eh? Invoking doesn't require astral projection or visiting a metaplane. It just lets you conjure Great Form spirits.
Conjurers get "spell points" because, as is made abundantly clear repeatedly throughout the game, the designers didn't really think about their wordings or the names they gave things. "Spell points," even by the core rules, allow you to bind spirits at the beginning of play and to bond with foci as well. |
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May 8 2004, 05:33 PM
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#22
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MechRigger Delux Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,151 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Hanger 18, WPAFB Member No.: 1,657 |
But the initiation does require astral projection....unless you use a spirit for the initiation. I think that's what he was refering too
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May 8 2004, 05:47 PM
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#23
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Target Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 27-March 04 From: Illinois Member No.: 6,200 |
initiation doesn't necessarily involve projection. if you do an astral quest ordeal, or your group requires some sort of activity on the astral plane, then you do. normally it doesn't matter. Even Physads can initiate.
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May 8 2004, 05:51 PM
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#24
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
Not a chance otherwise How can A physad Initate? Thouh i am confused by the wrding on Inovking in referance of it costing more to learn form a spirit... Or are they refering to you paying it karma to teach on top of the cost of Initation?? |
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May 8 2004, 06:06 PM
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#25
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
What's confusing about it? If you're asking a free spirit to teach you a metamagic technique, it's going to want some Karma in exchange. If it agrees to teach you Invoking, it'll likely ask for twice what it normally would (ie, twice their Spirit Energy).
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