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> Vehicle mod rules?, Are there any?
Bearclaw
post Feb 9 2015, 06:50 PM
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Finally starting to play 5th ed. I am playing a decker, but I had a rig installed, because apparently no one plays riggers in Missions. I don't want to devote a lot of cash to being a rigger, because it's hard enough being a decent decker. So, my thought was, I'd steal whatever car I needed and add in rigger adaptation on the fly. It wasn't much of an operation in SR4. Is this doable in SR5, and are there rules for it anywhere?
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hermit
post Feb 9 2015, 06:56 PM
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QUOTE
Vehicle mod rules?, Are there any?


Not for 5th, and it's unlikely there will be in 2015.
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Bearclaw
post Feb 9 2015, 07:00 PM
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Great. It's easy to houserule. Just use the same rules as 4th ed. But, I was hoping to use this guy for missions games, so I'll probably get different results depending on who the GM is. Sux.
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PraetorGradivus
post Feb 9 2015, 10:21 PM
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If you mean you just want to add rigger interface to a vehicle, it's 1000 nuyen.
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hermit
post Feb 9 2015, 11:42 PM
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On a side note, playing a Rigger-Decker is about the only way to play a viable Rigger in SR5, unless your GM handwaives an awful lot of the fun device bricking/hacking possibilities. But he shouldn't because they're so fun, especially when your chances of fighting back are nil.
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DeathStrobe
post Feb 10 2015, 04:46 AM
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Stolen Souls has a few mods for vehicles, but no reals on how to install them.
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binarywraith
post Feb 10 2015, 08:16 AM
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Just a reminder, it's 16 months since SR5 hit and we don't have so much as release dates for the core decking, rigging/vehicle, or augmentation books.
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DeathStrobe
post Feb 10 2015, 05:26 PM
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Matrix book is next. We'll probably see it in a few months. Its only been 16 months? It feels so much longer.
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Bearclaw
post Feb 10 2015, 05:55 PM
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2 pages for an expanded list of vehicles/drones, a couple dozen mods, and rules for doing them would have been a nice thing in the main book. The art is good, but I'd be very happy to trade a couple of pages of rules for a couple of pages of art..
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Bearclaw
post Feb 10 2015, 05:59 PM
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My original idea for this guy was a TM, using machine sprites rather than rigging. But machine sprites don't appear to have any capability to drive.
Am I missing something?
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PraetorGradivus
post Feb 10 2015, 07:02 PM
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A sprite could spoof the car and command it to do something.
Keep in mind, every combat turn would be a seperate task so your sprite will be used up pretty fast.
Also, unless the vehicle is running a maneuver autosoft it only uses its inherent pilot (which ranges from 1 dice to 3) for maneuver tests...good luck on that if you have to make a hard turn.
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Bearclaw
post Feb 10 2015, 07:18 PM
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Yea, that's what I gathered from reading too, but I've heard more than once that using sprites to drive was a good replacement for having a rigger.
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Jaid
post Feb 10 2015, 08:29 PM
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it was. in 4th edition. when technomancers were the grand high emperors of the matrix if properly built, albeit at the cost of being about as weak as a kitten outside of the matrix.

now it isn't. technomancers are generally speaking pretty good at filling a support role in 5th edition, and are capable of being a worse version of a decker, while still being as weak as a kitten outside of the matrix.
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Sengir
post Feb 10 2015, 10:09 PM
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QUOTE (Bearclaw @ Feb 10 2015, 06:59 PM) *
My original idea for this guy was a TM, using machine sprites rather than rigging. But machine sprites don't appear to have any capability to drive.
Am I missing something?

Nope, but that more or less dates back to 4th. On the other hand, the rigger interface (formerly known as rigger adaption) is one of the few mods which actually are in the BBB, page 461.
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Bearclaw
post Feb 10 2015, 11:40 PM
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QUOTE (Sengir @ Feb 10 2015, 03:09 PM) *
On the other hand, the rigger interface (formerly known as rigger adaption) is one of the few mods which actually are in the BBB, page 461.


But not the rules to put it in myself.
Yea, during regular business hours, I should be able to bring a car in to any car stereo type shop and get it installed in a couple of hours, less if I pay double, as long as they take cash, and don't run the tags.
But what I wanted to do was grab a car (or truck or whatever) off the street, pull into my storage shed for an hour, and come out with rigger adaptation. Which it doesn't appear I can do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)
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hermit
post Feb 10 2015, 11:42 PM
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You can have an NPC do it for you.
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Smash
post Feb 11 2015, 06:03 AM
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QUOTE (hermit @ Feb 10 2015, 10:42 AM) *
On a side note, playing a Rigger-Decker is about the only way to play a viable Rigger in SR5, unless your GM handwaives an awful lot of the fun device bricking/hacking possibilities. But he shouldn't because they're so fun, especially when your chances of fighting back are nil.


Well, it's pretty much an assumption that you have a decker as well, but that tends to not be the case because dispite all the changes to get deckers involved in 5th it seems that people reject those changes and still just don't use desckers. But I digress......

In terms of being defenceless that's hardly true. You can make a hackers life much tougher with your RCC and defence actions and given the fact that they are unlikely to be familiar with you or your devices they need to be pretty close (100m) before they can do anything to you.
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binarywraith
post Feb 11 2015, 08:06 AM
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QUOTE (Bearclaw @ Feb 10 2015, 05:40 PM) *
But not the rules to put it in myself.
Yea, during regular business hours, I should be able to bring a car in to any car stereo type shop and get it installed in a couple of hours, less if I pay double, as long as they take cash, and don't run the tags.
But what I wanted to do was grab a car (or truck or whatever) off the street, pull into my storage shed for an hour, and come out with rigger adaptation. Which it doesn't appear I can do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)


Honestly, just check with your GM, it'd probably just be a vehicle repair test.
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hermit
post Feb 11 2015, 06:03 PM
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QUOTE
Well, it's pretty much an assumption that you have a decker as well, but that tends to not be the case because dispite all the changes to get deckers involved in 5th it seems that people reject those changes and still just don't use desckers. But I digress......

Nevermind the presence of a decker or not, I doubt most team members in a runner team would trust each other so completely as to give up control of any technological tool to the team decker.

QUOTE
In terms of being defenceless that's hardly true. You can make a hackers life much tougher with your RCC and defence actions and given the fact that they are unlikely to be familiar with you or your devices they need to be pretty close (100m) before they can do anything to you.

Any good security decker will be in 100 m vicinity of you (or your drones, or any other run-relevnt vehicles and devices). And while they may not instantly brick all your drones, they WILL instantly know you are there and where you are, because without a stealth attribute in your persona you can just ditch the idea of running silent altogether. Plus, IF a decker decides to snipe at your drones, all you can do is deactivate them before that and pray they will not collide with anything while rebooting (given how drones work in close quarters, that's an unlikely thing to happen, though the mind-numbingly stupid speed attribute makes sure you never know how fast your vehicle is going anyway.
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DWC
post Feb 12 2015, 01:38 AM
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QUOTE (Bearclaw @ Feb 10 2015, 12:59 PM) *
My original idea for this guy was a TM, using machine sprites rather than rigging. But machine sprites don't appear to have any capability to drive.
Am I missing something?


Machine Sprites have Diagnostics and Stability. Stability automatically negates your glitches and downgrades your critical glitches, makes the device in question immune to the Accident spirit power, and grants immunity to the Gremlins quality. You don't want the sprite to actually drive. It just makes you amazing at driving.
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Jaid
post Feb 12 2015, 05:18 AM
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QUOTE (DWC @ Feb 11 2015, 08:38 PM) *
Machine Sprites have Diagnostics and Stability. Stability automatically negates your glitches and downgrades your critical glitches, makes the device in question immune to the Accident spirit power, and grants immunity to the Gremlins quality. You don't want the sprite to actually drive. It just makes you amazing at driving.


close...

technomancers and VCRs don't really mix well. what you want is for the sprite to make someone else good at driving (or, alternately, have a technomancer contact who can loan you sprite services for money and get a VCR).

and this is why technomancers are, as i said, mostly good at support in 5th edition. they can't get augmentations or magic to improve themselves easily, and their own abilities cost so much, that the end result is that the best use of a technomancer is to take someone who is already good at something, and make them even better at it (because making yourself better won't even bring you up to being as good as a person with augmentations or magic would be in the first place, most likely).
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Bearclaw
post Feb 12 2015, 11:58 PM
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QUOTE (hermit @ Feb 10 2015, 04:42 PM) *
You can have an NPC do it for you.


I formed a new plan. I dumped the VCR and just pumped up my reaction in general. So I'll give up the bonus's for being full VR and having the VCR, but I'm still going to roll 13 dice for anything with wheels, without having to worry about getting the mods done, and my initiative is 12 + 2D, and I roll 12 dice to dodge, making me much better in the meat world. And I'm really hoping that there's a rigger at the table.
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DeathStrobe
post Feb 13 2015, 01:10 AM
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QUOTE (Bearclaw @ Feb 12 2015, 04:58 PM) *
I formed a new plan. I dumped the VCR and just pumped up my reaction in general. So I'll give up the bonus's for being full VR and having the VCR, but I'm still going to roll 13 dice for anything with wheels, without having to worry about getting the mods done, and my initiative is 12 + 2D, and I roll 12 dice to dodge, making me much better in the meat world. And I'm really hoping that there's a rigger at the table.

Don't do that. Get the VCR. I wrote up an example rigger duel so that I could learn the rigging rules better. And the limit on most vehicles is absolute garbage. Without a VCR you'll be wasting a lot of hits. Also if the situation changes and the threshold jumps up over your car's limits you'll be making a crash test. Tossing dice at driving isn't the problem. Making your vehicle actually able to function is going to be your problem.
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Bearclaw
post Feb 13 2015, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (DeathStrobe @ Feb 12 2015, 06:10 PM) *
Don't do that. Get the VCR. I wrote up an example rigger duel so that I could learn the rigging rules better. And the limit on most vehicles is absolute garbage. Without a VCR you'll be wasting a lot of hits. Also if the situation changes and the threshold jumps up over your car's limits you'll be making a crash test. Tossing dice at driving isn't the problem. Making your vehicle actually able to function is going to be your problem.


I agree with everything you said.
But.... I'm playing a decker. I thought I'd ad utility by also being able to fill the role of a rigger if need be. But to be any good at it, I need to spend a lot of cash. I decided to spend that cash making an all around Shadowrunner. So, reflex boost and a cyber arm. He's a good decker, but throws 13 dice driving, 12 dice shooting, 12 dice to dodge as well. In general, a competent shadowrunner. I'm pretty happy how he's coming out.

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