[X] My Assistant

[Bearclaw]

I was looking at creating a shapeshifter, but aside from the info not being very well organized, it seems like a badly gimped character concept.
The best form is the animal form, but without regeneration or armor, you can never get into a fight. So that's out. You get some powers, but nothing that can't be gotten cheaply by a phys-ad, some cyber-ware, or a couple of spells. So, some roll playing fun, but at a huge cost. Maybe fun for a solo campaign, but not as a member of a team of shadowrunners.
Or am I missing something?

[Mantis]

The cool factor, which seems to be the only reason to take any number of gimped gear/concepts/whatever in 5th ed. Rule of Cooooool!

[hermit]

Stubbornness. The same reason to play a cybered non-Decker character. SR5 is MagicRun. The decisiveness with which mundanes are gimped suggests that's actually their idea of a good game.

So play a metahuman MysthAd or GTFO.

[Bearclaw]

My thought was that I could play a mage, and take the shapechange spell. So when convenient, I could take on the abilities of whatever animal I wanted, but still be able to wear armor in general.
Seriously, the only reason regeneration was cool was because it almost made up for not wearing armor.

[PraetorGradivus]

I don't know...how about bovine shapeshifter/minotaur w/ 4 special points at priority C... when normally you have to spend priority B to get a minotaur with no special points

[Bearclaw]

So, the shapeshifter is so bad that it's only use is a weird loophole that lets you make the non-shapeshifter part a little tougher?

[PraetorGradivus]

as far as I know...both parts are shapeshifter.... just saying.

and the special points are part and parcel of the whole.

people buy cyber hands and feet just for the armor and 'this' is a wierd loophole?

[Bearclaw]

Oh, there's lots of weird loopholes. I'm not really a fan of 5th ed so far, but that's what they're playing in the game I'm joining.

[PraetorGradivus]

I try not to complain too much...
5th is what it is.
The poster wanted a reason to play a shifter and that popped into my head.
If you rather...how about flight for the falconine.
And how about the age-old reason... a roleplaying challenge.
Instead of complaining, how about we all just enjoy ourselves.
No, no...I'm not going to start singing kumbaya.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

That's too bad... I was gonna go get marshmallows. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bearclaw]

I'm the original poster (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I didn't start the thread to complain, I was hoping I had missed something, and shapeshifters were a playable race.
I guess it could be, if you did everything that mattered in metahuman form, and the animal nature was just roll playing.
The rules make the animal form close to useless in combat. Regeneration didn't make up for no armor in 4th ed, but it helped. Hell, they're not even dual natured, so to hunt spirits and stuff I'd still have to play a phys-ad. I was hoping to get the stuff I want, without having to be an adept or mage.

So my plan now is to play an aspected sorceror, be REALLY good at manipulation spells, and use shapechange to switch to whatever form is most useful at the time.
I'll pick a totem, probably dog or wolf, just to aid in role playing, take category A for skills and be a detective/face/spirit zapper/first aid kit/all around utility dude. Not as good as a specialist at anything, but good enough to get the job done at most things. And I'll still be able to fly, or turn into a bear for combat or a bloodhound to track someone down.

[Bearclaw]

Or mystic adept. I forget about aspected mages getting no free spells.

[Glyph]

Yeah, I was just going to point that out. Sorcerers are a bit more viable in Point Buy, but they are horrible in Priority or Sum-to-Ten. 30 Karma to start out with 6 spells? Be a mysad and start out with 6 power points for the same cost.

[Umidori]

So wait - they made Shapeshifters in 5E even less worthwhile to play than they were in 4E? That's a hell of an accomplishment.

~Umi

[Wothanoz]

Honestly, I really don't mind that Mystic Adepts and Aspected Magicians ain't awesome: I have some bad memories of being pinned into a building, with a citymaster rolling around, and our magic guy could summon spirits to deal with it. Awesome. Or when that wizard can't scout the building for you. Yeah, not a fan of that.

I've never liked the "partial" magic types. PhysAds are tolerable, but generally, I wanna drag every gimped awakened character out behind a tasty freeze and stab'em up with a rusty screwdriver.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Mystic Adepts are in no way gimped (they are very awesome) in 5th Edition. They are the only ones who can start with Magic 6 AND 6 Power Points.

[Medicineman]

Mystic Adepts are in no way gimped (they are very awesome) in 5th Edition. They are the only ones who can start with Magic 6 AND 6 Power Points.

or even 7 both , but than they have no other Pos Qualities ( Everything has a Price in 5th ed Y'know)

Hough!
Medicineman

[Wothanoz]

Mystic Adepts are in no way gimped (they are very awesome) in 5th Edition. They are the only ones who can start with Magic 6 AND 6 Power Points.

If you can't summon, banish and astrally project, then you're a gimp to me. Sorry.

Magician Superiority an' all. We look down our noses at you.

[Cochise]

If you can't summon, banish and astrally project, then you're a gimp to me. Sorry.

Magician Superiority an' all. We look down our noses at you.

Well, it all boils down to "lack of astral projection" then as far as Mystics are concerned ... which kind of over-estimates its value ... even when disregarding the precedence of SR3 officially granting "Mystics" access to astral projection / metaplanar travel without aid of spirit entities.

[Wothanoz]

Well, it all boils down to "lack of astral projection" then as far as Mystics are concerned ... which kind of over-estimates its value ... even when disregarding the precedence of SR3 officially granting "Mystics" access to astral projection / metaplanar travel without aid of spirit entities.

Yeah, but SR3. Ick.

[Cochise]

Yeah, but SR3. Ick.

Whatever dislikes you may have about SR3 that still doesn't change the fact that Mystics are not necessarily precluded from the "precious" astral projection. It's just that - so far - none of the current writers / developers re-introduced the associated metamagic ... which I find a bit strange considering that "Unified Magic Theory" that they decided to make baseline ...

[Wothanoz]

Whatever dislikes you may have about SR3 that still doesn't change the fact that Mystics are not necessarily precluded from the "precious" astral projection. It's just that - so far - none of the current writers / developers re-introduced the associated metamagic ... which I find a bit strange considering that "Unified Magic Theory" that they decided to make baseline ...

Nah, that's one of the things I hated: being an adept/aspected mage back in the day really was a drawback. Then as time went on, they made it better and better. I never liked that.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

If you can't summon, banish and astrally project, then you're a gimp to me. Sorry.

Magician Superiority an' all. We look down our noses at you.

You do realize that Mystic Adepts can Summon and Banish, right? And can perceive astrally if they have the adept ability.
I have always found that Astral Projection pretty much sucks (It has niche uses, but I have rarely ever utilized it), so your mileage may vary. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Nah, that's one of the things I hated: being an adept/aspected mage back in the day really was a drawback. Then as time went on, they made it better and better. I never liked that.

Magic has become more powerful as the timeline progresses. Why is that weird?

[Cochise]

Nah, that's one of the things I hated: being an adept/aspected mage back in the day really was a drawback.

Being a baseline adept or aspected magician also came with reduced initial costs (and do so in form of negative qualities when opting for them these days). Not so much for Mystics / Adepts of the Magician's Way which were full magicans cost wise (and in part within fluff as well). And they certainly do cost more in later editions -including the latest one. So I'm a bit at a loss concerning your line of argument there ... particularly when considering the fact that you do seem to like SR5.

Fact remains: Mystic Adepts in SR4 and SR5 only lack direct access to astral projection and there still is precedence for that kind of magician getting access to it in an earlier edition.

And one of the core elements of the current magic theory (i.e. "Unified Magic Theory") would actually suggest that (re-)gaining that access should be far easier within the current time line than it was in SR3 days. Currently the Mystic Adept is pretty much the culmination of a magician gaining access to adept powers or an adept gaining access to magician's abilities and it looks rather arbitrary that projection is left out there. But then again, nobody ever claimed that consistency of the involved metaphysics was a strong element of SR rules and fluff.