The deep web Options

[Sengir]

Onion services is the correct term

If anything it would be "onion hidden services", but that only covers TOR and not Freenet, I2P, Retroshare...

Referring to "a secret internet for drug dealers, assassins and pedophiles"

Who did that again?
Really, you're fighting attacks which are not even there, making both yourself and what you are trying to defend look asinine.

And just to top it off you complain about political discussions, after being the one who started it.


@Wothanoz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_S...s_countries.PNG
Hard to be picky when you're on the run from a superpower...
(And that's just the countries with an official extradition treaty. Namibia apparently doesn't have one and ranks quite well in terms of press freedom, but I doubt they could resist the political and economic pressure.)

[Wothanoz]

As we continue this political debate that has nothing whatsoever to do with Shadowrun...

Referring to "a secret internet for drug dealers, assassins and pedophiles" is a disgusting smear against the millions of people who use privacy enhancing technologies.

Wanting to have Tor outlawed is par for the course among anti-whistleblowing types. I've seen them spread that sort of garbage all over social media.

If you think I'm "stirring up an argument" then talk to me privately. You're the one pointing out my character flaws. Concerning your comment about mod intervention, is it really necessary to come right up to the line?

As of yet, I have not referred to the darknet/darkweb as anything other than a way of surfing anonymously. Which, from what I understand, is what it is. That's in no way political, and no one in this thread has called for outlawing anything.

I don't wish to talk to you privately, as I have already stated my desires for transparency, openness and the free dissemination of information. These concepts, by the way, are part and partial to the cyberpunk genre that shadowrun is a product of. If you've ever read the Neo anarchists guide to North America, you would know that much of shadowrun's background has always been influenced by neo-libertarian and anarchist philosophy, and the protoganists we play are generally considered not only amoral, but outright criminals. We discuss a game where it is de rigor to plan assassinations, grand theft, kidnapping, murder and other violent crime, yet you insist that discussing internet connectivity, transparency, privacy and security are not germane to the setting.

Do drug dealers and pedophiles use secure technology to commit their crimes? Yup. But that no more means that so called "darkweb" technology is inherently amoral or criminal than criminals using guns means that a gun is criminal.

[Wothanoz]

@Wothanoz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_S...s_countries.PNG
Hard to be picky when you're on the run from a superpower...
(And that's just the countries with an official extradition treaty. Namibia apparently doesn't have one and ranks quite well in terms of press freedom, but I doubt they could resist the political and economic pressure.)

I understand that line of thinking. "any safe port in a storm" and all that. I just am not sure I can view him as a hero for transparency, as he is sheltering in a country that makes the current US policies look somewhat tame. However, I do give him for credit for his careful selection of what to release, so as to minimize the impact on security operations, while exposing what are dangerous policies. So, I'm not completely without sympathy for him, I just am enough of a skeptic and pessimist to not believe his stated motivations. But, ya know, ya pays yer moneys, and ya takes yer chances.

[Shemhazai]

If anything it would be "onion hidden services", but that only covers TOR and not Freenet, I2P, Retroshare...


Who did that again?

It's in the original image, near the bottom.

Feel free to go to the Tor IRC channel #tor at the oftc.net server if you'd care to ask those folks what they're called.

[Wothanoz]

It's in the original image, near the bottom.

Feel free to go to the Tor IRC channel #tor at the oftc.net server if you'd care to ask those folks what they're called.

Saying that criminals use the deep web, darkweb, guns or cash is not the same as saying that only criminals use the deep web, dark web, guns or cash.

For that matter, near the parts where they discuss the criminal uses, they also point out legitimate, legal uses. Your fixation on the "smear" is interesting, because it's only a portion ofthe over-all graphic, yet you insist in bringing it up constantly.

I own a hi point 995 carbine, the same firearm used by Eric Harris during the 1999 columbine massacre. Yet, when people ask me why I got the 995, or why I would recommend it to others(and I would! It's great!), I don't fixate on the fact that it was used to murder a score of school children. I instead talk about it's accuracy, it's firepower, the availability of 9mm rounds, the low cost point for the firearm and the ammo, and it's portability. Those are points I will argue and discuss, while ignoring jack holes who continuously call it the "columbine gun".

Now, no one here is saying that the deep web, darkweb, onion servers or whatever is solely used for criminal purposes. So, you know, drop that aspect of the conversation.

[Shemhazai]

Saying that criminals use the deep web, darkweb, guns or cash is not the same as saying that only criminals use the deep web, dark web, guns or cash.

For that matter, near the parts where they discuss the criminal uses, they also point out legitimate, legal uses. Your fixation on the "smear" is interesting, because it's only a portion ofthe over-all graphic, yet you insist in bringing it up constantly.

I own a hi point 995 carbine, the same firearm used by Eric Harris during the 1999 columbine massacre. Yet, when people ask me why I got the 995, or why I would recommend it to others(and I would! It's great!), I don't fixate on the fact that it was used to murder a score of school children. I instead talk about it's accuracy, it's firepower, the availability of 9mm rounds, the low cost point for the firearm and the ammo, and it's portability. Those are points I will argue and discuss, while ignoring jack holes who continuously call it the "columbine gun".

Now, no one here is saying that the deep web, darkweb, onion servers or whatever is solely used for criminal purposes. So, you know, drop that aspect of the conversation.

You're mischaracterizing what I said. I'm not really here to have my political opinions changed by you anyway, so dropping it is a good idea.

[Wothanoz]

You're mischaracterizing what I said. I'm not really here to have my political opinions changed by you anyway, so dropping it is a good idea.

You keep using that word, "politics", and I don't think you know what it means.

"deep web" as a concept, again, doesn't refer to anything political, it refers to data that is not indexed and reachable through hyperlinks. It's not even necessarily secure or clandestine information, it's just not information stored in such a way that traditional web crawlers can find it. For example, much of the information on some widely used websites is not available, because it does not involve using a link. Dark Net or Dark Web is stuff that uses non-standard protocols to be accessed, allowing secure peer to peer transmissions. That's available both from the infrographic and from plenty of articles on the internet, not all of them published by mainstream media sources. And then there are yet OTHER parts of the internet that are cut off from the rest of the internet, for example, an improperly configured router can fail to connect to other routers, while still allowing the computers on that router's network to communicate with each other and share information.

None of that is in anyway a political discussion.

Now, there could be said to be a political discussion in that some people desire to limit the access to the internet and monitor it, for various purposes. However, that isn't really "old reservation" for shadowrun, as the entire Matrix is set up in such a way as to limit and monitor who goes where and does what. Everything is under scrutiny, and shadowrunners typically operate along the seams between the legitimate and illegitimate world. They engage in deplorable criminal behavior, and it's important to make sure you only share that sort of dangerous information with a limited pool of others. So, runners should always be interested in trying to keep their matrix activities under cover and anonymous. Much like drug dealers who use onion services, or child pornography fans who use said services. OR hitmen.

Heck, I've played characters who were more deplorable than child pornography users. I mean, I would generally think that someone willing to harvest the kidneys from a child is worse than someone who is just sexual attracted to children.

[Sengir]

It's in the original image, near the bottom.

And more importantly, it's not the author's own words but a quote from a newspaper. At the very bottom of the image. After extolling the use of Tor for legitimate reasons ("Many people are now beginning to use TOR as a way of maintaining their privacy whilst online"). Accordingly, nobody in this discussion even mentioned any criminal aspects of Tor usage until you stamped your feet and demanded nobody mention the war -- which should give a reasonable person some pause...

Feel free to go to the Tor IRC channel #tor at the oftc.net server if you'd care to ask those folks what they're called.

Why don't you go ahead and tell us how we should call it?

[fistandantilus4....]

This one has pretty much died down, but I'm going to lock it anyway. Had I been around the last couple of days I would have done so a few days ago. It's a very interesting and I think relevant topic, but as it's mostly the back and forth now, I think it's lost it's value.
That being said, thanks for keeping it mostly civil.