should I play this game, fan of genre and world, but no rpg exp. Options

[idolone]

I got interested in Shadowrun around 1991 or so when I stumbled upon the Shadowrun novels. After reading a few of them, I purchased and played the video games on super nes and genesis. I really enjoyed the video games and the books and to a limited degree continue to read them. I had seen advertisements for the rpg in the back of some of the novels, but could never find the core book in stores. Coming from a video game background, I never really understood how it was possible to play a game with only dice and paper.

Well recently, I've started to get interested in Shadowrun again. My girlfriend works at a bookstore, and while visiting her there last week, I noticed the third edition core rules. Of course I picked it up and flipped through it, and it seemed very interesting to me, so I bought it. I'm about 130 pages or so into it, and I'm starting to feel a little discouraged.

The rules seem very complex and a bit overwhelming to me. My background in math is horrible, and the rules seem to be based very strictly on math principles. I have no previous experience in these types of role playing games to fall back on. I don't know anyone else that plays this game, and frankly have no idea how to get started in the game. I've always had a soft spot for cyberpunk and fantasy, and I really enjoy stories from the Shadowrun universe, but after reading through some of these rules, I'm not sure how I should proceed.

My question is, do you guys think I should continue to try and get into this game, and if so, how the heck am I supposed to get started?

[TinkerGnome]

Glad to see you're interested. I have a few pieces of advice for you.

1. Don't be discouraged if the rules seem complex. They are complex because they attempt to model real life as closely as possible. SR is even more complex than most pen and paper RPGs in that sense. If you grasp the basics, you're a long way toward learning the rules, though. Don't try to memorize or even understand everything the first time through. Just know where to look to find it later... when you get into a game, lots of stuff makes more sense.
2. Most of your math is on the front end during character creation. Beyond that point, it's primarily just addition and subtraction. You can cut down on that initial math using a character generation program. Generally, you don't try to do a lot of the math without the tables in front of you, anyway.
3. The best way to learn is to play. What's your location? Local game shops might be a place to start, or if you have local conventions that'd work as well.

[edit] Oh, yeah, and like Herald says below, you can always ask us questions. There are lots of people here who love the sound of their own typing and will answer most questions with a short novel ;) Okay, so maybe I'm exaggerating a little. But not much. [/edit]

[Herald of Verjig...]

Get the main book (as you already have), and start asking questions. We only have a few drek-heads who insult people for asking sincere questions.

It's good to start looking at just the mundane rules. Ignore the decking, rigging, and magic until later. Most of the rules don't need more math skill than addition and subtraction, but there is some multiplication and the occasional root.

When you find something dificult, ask and many of us will try to help.

[Prospero]

Echo that. The best way to get into it is to just play. Once you start playing, all the rules will begin to fall into place. When I started playing I screwed up a lot of the rules and fudged a lot of stuff the first few times out, but it didn't really matter because me and my friends had a good time. That's really the important part. After a couple more games we got more used to the rules and how they worked and then it was even more fun. It might be easier if you can find a more experienced player at a gaming shop to talk you through things or help run your first couple of games, but if not, don't sweat the rules all that much - just jump into the setting and have fun. :cyber:

[Swing Kid]

Start out with a team full of Street Sams. Teaches you the basics of the game (initiative, dice rolls, modifications, etc, and most importantly, character death). Whoever is GMing should keep the team out of the more complicated runs (like espianage or extractions). It is also a good way to learn the rougher side of the sprawl. Then, when whoever the brain is of your group (we all have that guy) starts reading deeper into the trickier character types, like Riggers, Deckers, and Mages, let him be the first to bring in one of these types of characters. This will challenge the GM without making him (or her- sorry ladies) learn every aspect of the game at once. The others will follow. :cyber:

[idolone]

Well, thanks for the help guys. I really don't have too much of a problem with most of the rules. It's just the combat, matrix, rigger, and magic stuff that's confusing. I really want to create a stealth type martial arts oriented character but when I tried that, I just got really confused. Maybe street samurai is the way to go for now after all.

I do have another question though. Does anyone here have any advise on getting people interested in playing this game? I'd like to start playing with some friends, but I know I'd end up having to be the game master, and I've never done anything like that before. Any advice about that?

I don't know, maybe I'm going too fast. I guess that's just how I am. You guys know how it is, once you start learning, you kind of just want to jump in and play. I'm thinking that I'll pick up the First Run book, and go from there. Oh yeah, I know this is a stupid question, but can anyone tell me what a campaign is? I see that word around here alot, but since I know nothing about rpg's I'm not sure what that means.

[TinkerGnome]

Okay, let's go with some teminology :)

game, session, or game session -- A session is a period of play which is generally done in one sitting. Some groups might take a meal break in the middle (or more, if it's a really long session). In a convention setting this is generally a 4 or 5 hour period of time. In a home game, it can run from 2 to 24 hours, depending on the available time and group stamina. Personally, my sessions run about 4-5 hours.

run or scenario -- A cohesive chunk of game play which is all oriented around a single task [edit] or one series of events [/edit]. A typical scenario might encompass meeting a Johnson, performing a run, and the aftermath of the run. No judgement about time is made, and a single run can last several sessions or just one.

campaign -- A set of cohesive scenarios with a common game world (ie, the events of one game affect the world itself, which is then different for other games in that same world). Generally, a campaign is about the same characters on several runs, but some characters may die and be replaced or there may be "side stories" which involve non-main characters.

Finding a group can either be easy or hard. Asking around at the local game shop is about your best bet if you don't want to bite the bullet and GM yourself. You can also try posting to one of the various online forums where you can attempt to find players or GMs.

[Lilt]

I'll tell you not to bother with the matrix rules to start-off with. Leave vehicle combat out of the first few runs too.

The vehicle and matrix rules are 'realism' and flavour systems respectively. Even many experienced GMs rule 'no deckers' in their campaigns simply because they can take time away from the rest of the group.

[edit] First-run would be a great idea, there is one run in it that people advise against though. [/edit]

[idolone]

Thanks for the terminology. I think I understand now. How long does a campaign usually last? Also, is it nessesary to create new characters for every single run if I am not playing in a campaign? Sorry for all the newbie questions, but I honestly don't know where else to ask.

[TinkerGnome]

When it gets down to it, the length of a campaign and the like are GM specific questions. Campaigns can run months or years, depending on teh group, and some GMs are more than happy to have the same characters in various not-connected runs. In general, if you're using the same characters, you're probably in a campaign (which means you get to keep karma and cash earned on the last run to make your character better, etc.).

[Fahr]

as a small distinction, a campaign usua;;y has a theme. I GM almost all the time, and I have no problems with players playing the same cahrechters in unrealted runs. after all shadowrunners are mercenaries. the only reason they work with others is to get the job done.

think of it like this, a campaign is a novel. a run is either a chapter or a short story. a session is a few pages. how many sessions make up a run, or a campaign depends on your author (GM and players)

-Mike R.

[idolone]

Thanks Fahr, your book analogy sums it up perfectly for me. I guess building a campain is pretty tough. Is that what all the other books are for? I assumed they were single runs for each book, but I don't really know. Since my girlfriend works at a bookstore, I can get her to order anything for me as long as it isn't out of print. What do you guys suggest starting out with? I already know about first run and will most likely begin with that. Is there anything online that might be cool to start with, or other books?

[Dashifen]

The other thing to mention is that you can play online right here at dumpshock. One of the other forums on this site is named "Welcome to the Shadows" and there are always a lot of games running at any one time. I have one finishing up and I'll probably start one or two in the near future. Just want for threads labeled "OOC" (short for Out Of Character) that don't have a lot of posts in them.

Generally, spots in the game are first come first served, so it's a little difficult to get in, but with a little perseverance you can find one to play in. In fact, if you want to, I'll reserve you a spot in an upcoming game that I'll probably get started in a few days!

The good part about gaming online is you can think about what you want to say/do in between posts. Since people generally only post once or twice a day, unless you're really a die hard dumpshocker :wavey:, you have 20 hours or so in between posts to hit the rulebooks and look something up that you don't understand. The downside is that you can miss the thrill and emotion of gaming in "real time."

[D.Generate]

Welcome to the world of SR. Please keep arms and legs in he car while in motion. Don't deal with dragons, trust no one, ghouls aren't all bad, good karma is your best friend, and don't get into drinking contests with trolls.

About 130 pages into the book huh and you think its complicated just wait till you hithte matrix section. I've been running for a while and have read the book back to front dozens of times and I still have to look up rules.

The best thing to do to learn is find some people who play and see if you can join or sit in on a couple sessions. Look in local game/comic shops some times there are bulletin boards you can post on, alot of groups look for fresh meat......errr i mean new players.

Anyways good luck and I hope you enjoy the weird world of RPG'ers you just enered.

DG

[Mr. Man]

[TinkerGnome]

Mr. Man missed the Sprawl Survival Guide, which is a really good background book (not a rules book). [edit] I just noticed he wasn't trying to give a comprehensive list. [/edit]

One thing you'll find when you start getting into the cord core addon books (ie, the primary addons which expand the rules in a large way, Cannon Companion, Man and Machine, Matrix, Rigger 3, Magic in the Shadows, the Companion) is that they reference each other a fair bit. It'll be annoying at first, but once you've got them all you'll easily see why they're broken up that way and cross referenced the way they are. Usually, at least.

[Connor]

If you're wanting to try and get some of your friends interested you might think about picking up Sprawl Survival Guide actually. It'll give them a nice intro into the world and the game without having to read all the novels and such.

Good luck with bringing your friends into the game. It's what I did years ago and I ended up not being the primary GM for more than five years. So, you never know really...heh.

[Number 6]

[KillaJ]

I dont really have anything to add that someone else hasn't said better than I could but This thread might be something worth checking out until you get all of your friends hooked.

[MrSandman666]

Well, welcome aboard! Another soul converted...

Yes, if you really want to go and buy a book the first two books to get would be the Sprawl Survival Guide and the Shadowrun Companion, in that order. (in my oppinion)

the Sprawl Survival Guide gives some excellent insight in the setting and everyday life of people living in the sixth world. It's a great help for GM as well as players. The Shadowrun Companion gives some optional rules for handling things that have been left out or only lightly touched in the core rulebook like enemies and contacts of the characters, character advancement (Karma, training, etc), an additional character generation system (the uild point system, which is the best in my opinion but there's some discussion about this). There's also some advice for the GM on how to run a decent game, how to structure runs and campaigns as well as different ideas for campaigns.

And, for one, if you're the only one interested in your area and you're trying to convert a group of friends be prepared to be the GM. It's a challenge but it's really not that bad. You just have to free yourself of the imagination that you absolutely have to know all the rules by heart. You should also free yourself of the idea that anything about the game is set in stone. As a GM you are free to omit, change or add rules as you please. You can define the game world in any way you please. The only premise is that you have to agree with your players about this and keep it consistent during the game.
Unlike a computer game, you are not stuck with one defined set of rules. You are free to do as you please, your imagination being the only limit.

And if you feel confused about anything, go ahead and ask specific questions. The more specific the question the easier it is for us to answer it.

[toturi]

[MrSandman666]

Sorry, no native English speaker ;)
Originally I meant to write "...drawn to the dark side of the force" but that seemed a beet too harsh and geeky to me :D

[Diesel]

Haha, I've been playing SR for a few years now and we still haven't touched vehicle combat. Well, not more than once. It's just like "They're in a car...abandon chase..."

One day we'll get it.

[Abstruse]

[kevyn668]