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> Prisons and punishment, opening the books thats thrown
Chance359
post May 12 2004, 07:01 AM
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I'm working on a character's background who spent around 5 years in prison. I've read through the old forums, looked through some third edition books, but I can't find anything about what corrective measures would be taken with augmented or awakened individuals for long periods of time.

I could see anyone who enters into a correctional corp database being cataloged with all known abilities. this could lead to a "Harrison Bergeron" like setup where each individual is given degenerative items to counter their enhancements. This is already cannon in a way with the "Mage Mask".

Location is always a good thing too, placing your more dangerious inmates in areas of restricting climate can act as another layer of captivity.

I could also see a system located in some isolated region where inmates are plugged into sim sense all day, where they sit through "reeducation" classes like ethincs, morality, of knitting (ala Demolition Man).

Any thoughts?
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Kanada Ten
post May 12 2004, 07:18 AM
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Discussion about cyberware and prisons

It goes on to talk about magic.
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Chance359
post May 12 2004, 07:19 AM
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Damn, missed that one, lack of sleep. Thanks.
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Kanada Ten
post May 12 2004, 07:21 AM
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So Ka. I'd have gone on, but... time to sleep on this end.
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Synner
post May 12 2004, 08:45 AM
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I had something called Mage cuffs written up in another old forum thread. Basically they're an anti-astral projection control. A gauntlet style bracelet with an inbuilt taser, a photosensitive sensor and circular band of flourescent FAB. When a mage projects out of his body his astral body moves through the FAB, pushing it aside and termporarily breaking the band's glow. The light sensor picks this up firing the taser, the stun should knock the mage out and jerk his astral body back.

In SR2 other containment measures for full mages could include underground prisons (Fortress style) where moving through the Earth makes it difficult to project too, in SR3 its less restrictive but still dangerous (at enough depth its not worth the mages time to go out and back in).
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Zazen
post May 12 2004, 09:22 AM
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QUOTE (Synner)
in SR3 its less restrictive but still dangerous (at enough depth its not worth the mages time to go out and back in).

Time is a pretty abundant resource in prison. I bet it'd be worth the risk just to see the sun once in a while.

And I really like those magecuffs. Awesome.
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blakkie
post May 12 2004, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE (Chance359 @ May 12 2004, 07:01 AM)
I could see anyone who enters into a correctional corp database being cataloged with all known abilities.  this could lead to a "Harrison Bergeron" like setup where each individual is given degenerative items to counter their enhancements.  This is already cannon in a way with the "Mage Mask".

Years of extreme, repeatative sensory overload? Long term wearing of a mage mask would leave some incredibly deep mental scars. No way they'd have anything resembling sanity coming out. I'd guess more like a perpetual vegetative state?

EDIT: Just a day or two in a mage mask passes for pretty intense torture.
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Abstruse
post May 12 2004, 03:22 PM
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Try to find the old Lone Star sourcebook somewhere, it has a ton of info on prisons and such.

The Abstruse One
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Nikoli
post May 12 2004, 03:52 PM
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Could always implant a cranial bomb that goes off when your brain waves match that of a person projecting or casting a spell.
(mainly for the 0 essence cost listed)
They "remove" it when you are sufficiantly rehabilitated
(read: screw up again and we'll thump your skull for you)
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CircuitBoyBlue
post May 12 2004, 05:33 PM
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I always imagined that prison was especially brutal on awakened characters, even if just because you need to take really harsh measures to keep them under control. For instance, I imagine that a LOT of cyberware gets installed in them to take their magic rating down, and that would have some added benefits (One minute you're chucking fireballs at the guards, the next, your legs are carrying you back to your cell). Also, any prison with magical inmates probably has high-powered and evil mages working there, because they'd have a good body of test subjects for anything they wanted to try out, and there'd be a lot of useful minds for them to probe.
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TinkerGnome
post May 12 2004, 06:09 PM
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QUOTE (CircuitBoyBlue)
I imagine that a LOT of cyberware gets installed in them to take their magic rating down

Nah, just one piece of cyberware, a datajack. Then they feed simsense into it for 24 hours a day for the duration of your term. Probably not a happy experience.
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CircuitBoyBlue
post May 12 2004, 06:24 PM
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I figure they'd put more in just to take your essence/magic down. Plus, like I said, there's any number of additional safeguards you can put in place that way. Such as putting in cyberlegs designed to keep the inmate from leaving the cell, auto-injectors to drug you up instantly if you get out of line, magnetic limbs to lock you in place, etc.
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TinkerGnome
post May 12 2004, 06:29 PM
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Depends on where you end up. If you're in a corp owned prison, you might get all of that stuff and more as you become a test subject for some of their more clandestine projects. You probably won't get out anytime soon, either. Or ever.

If you're in a public prison, that all costs cash which the government doesn't want to spend on prisoners. Simple datajack with a simsense loop is cheap and efficient (with rehabilitative training included... think Demolition Man with virtual trainers). They already to it for most prisoners to keep them managable.
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Nikoli
post May 12 2004, 06:34 PM
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I'm thinking the "rehab" programs also include psycotropic ASIST like Judas and basic behavorial modification
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CircuitBoyBlue
post May 12 2004, 07:00 PM
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True, the government wouldn't want to spend that much money. But I find it ahrd to imagine that the government would still be running its own prisons by the time of SR. I mean hell, they're well on their way to giving it up now. And if they were still imprisoning people, liberals would attack the simsense plan as being inhumane, while the conservatives would attack it on the grounds that it aimed to rehabilitate prisoners :D
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Nikoli
post May 12 2004, 07:12 PM
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Ah, but if you tweak the RAS override gear to turn the prisoners into sweatshop workers, the conservatives would quiet down
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Traks
post May 12 2004, 07:51 PM
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If conservatives can be bought with sweats, can liberals be bought with watermelons?
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post May 12 2004, 07:54 PM
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Yeah, but remember that even in the UCAS SINless have no rights, and the government decides who has a SIN (It's a fake! Fake I tell you!).
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TinkerGnome
post May 12 2004, 07:58 PM
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Even with prisons privately owned and run for the government, cost is job #1. Unless they have a method of making money off of what they're doing (rented test subjects, maybe? Slave labor?) they're going to go with the cheapest possible solution. I wouldn't be surprised if the SINless regularly died of "natural causes" such as naturally costing too much to feed and house for the trouble.
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Centurion
post May 12 2004, 09:33 PM
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And remember, according to Focault, the purpose of prison isn't to punish or to rehabilitate, but is intentionally designed to create a nastier, more brutal permanant criminal class.

The purpose of this class is to
A) Demonstrate to the rest of society what you're not supposed to do
B) Justify increased invasion of personal privacy due to the needed security precautions to protect the public from this manufactured criminal class.

So yes, prisons, while they pay lip service to rehabilitation/punishment, and even if everyone involved thinks that's what their purpose is, a shoddy prison system run with little money which brutalizes the mind and allows for the forming of more criminal contacts with which to propagate further criminal activity is the unstated goal. Structuring the prison system around this and Foucault's other concept the Panopticon (which in itself it a good metaphor for both our current society and especially that of SR.) would probably be closest to the mark.
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post May 12 2004, 11:17 PM
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I'd argue that he's wrong on the purpose, but then I look at the results of the last twenty years and... damn.
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Joker9125
post May 13 2004, 03:32 AM
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Hell i asked my GM about his take on prison and the awakened and he just said they would use things like trauma patches to perminantly reduce your magic to zero. What is the Mage mask?
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Kanada Ten
post May 13 2004, 03:47 AM
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They have a canonical surgical option that can remove one's ability to use magic without having to install any cyberware, not to mention Scorching and space.

SINless in the UCAS have rights, just not full rights. They are considered "Probationary Citizens" and have all normal Human Rights. Once you are arrested, Lone Star gives you a Criminal SIN.

The Mage Mask is in SR3. It prevents Line of Sight and has a built-in thought disruption device.
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blakkie
post May 13 2004, 04:02 AM
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The Magemask is actually in MiTS (page 12).

P.S. Included in that section is a couple paragraphs about shortterm and longterm imprisonment of awakened. Magemask + handcuffs or straightjacket for shortterm. Longterm varies by jurisdiction, but can include
- drugs or simsense loops to temporarily suppress magical abilities
- installing a datajack to feed the simsense in more strongly, resulting of course in temporary suppression as well as a small permanent Magic reduction
- drugs or surgery to permanently reduce Magic ability to 0
- early release for services rendered, cortex bomb enforced of course
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shadd4d
post May 13 2004, 08:30 AM
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There's some information in the old Awakenings sourcebook, which talks about what happens if you get caught. It basically covers 1) drugs, 2) simsense, 3) surgery. That seems to be either standard or what is the urban myth among the awakened.

Don
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