A matter of the all powerful manabolt, (and why I don't like it) Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[Pendaric]

I dont generally have a problem with direct combat spells but mana bolt is just too good.

Not only is it the spell of choice to drop street sams but also nukes everything 'living' with aplomb too. Mundanes, spirits, wizzers both physical and in the astral and spirits count as destroyed not disrupted! I mean come on, this is why it is a must spell. And am no better I take it every time.

What I would propose is a house rule: Spirits destroyed in the meat by mana bolt are only disrupted, not toast. Will be back on the job in requisite 28 - force days if free or elementals. Except when nuked in the astral plane from a dual-natured or projecting adversary- in which case they are destroyed.

Its a small change to try and correct a small imbalance. Projecting wizzers get drain in physical and could destroy the spirit with astral combat.
Dual-natured perceiving wizzers get at least one round of very fast astral spirit attacking them while their head is above the parapet, possibale getting Confused by a nature spirit or accident'ed to death.

Advise on improving this would be great dumpshock.

[Neraph]

At my tables we gave all Indirect Combat spells -2 Drain and all Direct Combat +2 Drain. It seemed to help somewhat.

[KnightAries]

I dont generally have a problem with direct combat spells but mana bolt is just too good.

Not only is it the spell of choice to drop street sams but also nukes everything 'living' with aplomb too. Mundanes, spirits, wizzers both physical and in the astral and spirits count as destroyed not disrupted! I mean come on, this is why it is a must spell. And am no better I take it every time.

What I would propose is a house rule: Spirits destroyed in the meat by mana bolt are only disrupted, not toast. Will be back on the job in requisite 28 - force days if free or elementals. Except when nuked in the astral plane from a dual-natured or projecting adversary- in which case they are destroyed.

Its a small change to try and correct a small imbalance. Projecting wizzers get drain in physical and could destroy the spirit with astral combat.
Dual-natured perceiving wizzers get at least one round of very fast astral spirit attacking them while their head is above the parapet, possibale getting Confused by a nature spirit or accident'ed to death.

Advise on improving this would be great dumpshock.

LOS can be a bitch against a mage. But that mana bolt is useless if the mage is being fired on from inside a vehicle where he can't see his target.

And I can come up with other ways to remove the spell from being effective. an every once in awhile is ok if it gets the player to think on their feet.

[apple]

SR4 Official rules:
- Line of Sight (cover, smoke, darkness, glare/flare, fog etc)
- Enemies with a smart gun can shoot around the corner from full cover (due to the camera in the smartlink)
- Cover gives +4 bonus dices to spell resistance (look into the combat chapter => cover (only heavy cover however gives this bonus)
- Background Count
- Don´t forget that a newbie street samurai with some nuyen/karma will have 20+ dices for his silenced 10 shot assault rifle, doing 16K -1AP or 16S 1/2 armor at 550m.
- Drones and TacNet. Always surprising how many GMs live in the 1980s with some cyberware and not 207X with cheap streetlevel combat drones and indirect fire

Optinal rules
Do not allow overcasting (we have this as a house rule in our group, it really powers the spell down)
Use variant rules for overcasting in the basic book

Spirits destroyed in the meat by mana bolt are only disrupted, not toast

At least in SR4 this is the official rule, not a house rule (at least for permanent spirits, bound/summoned spirits are on short contract and permanently quit their job).

[Pendaric]

Good to know as at least techniquely I am still on sr3.

[Lionhearted]

I find that magi only ever get out of line if they are allowed to always have ideals conditions for their mojo slinging, except the obvious points like having giant bulleyes painted on their forehead the moment they even look magicial...
As annoying as it might, some micromanaging from the GM including stuff like background count (the barrens is not gonna be a neutral mana zone...) aspected domains (that wuxing facility? you can bet their magi are attuned to it but you're not) and somewhat frequent enemy magi, heck even a shitty mage can throw some counterspelling to mess with the PCs overcasted manabolt of doom

[Neraph]

I find that magi only ever get out of line if they are allowed to always have ideals conditions for their mojo slinging, except the obvious points like having giant bulleyes painted on their forehead the moment they even look magicial...
As annoying as it might, some micromanaging from the GM including stuff like background count (the barrens is not gonna be a neutral mana zone...) aspected domains (that wuxing facility? you can bet their magi are attuned to it but you're not) and somewhat frequent enemy magi, heck even a shitty mage can throw some counterspelling to mess with the PCs overcasted manabolt of doom

Exactly. Mages are as dangerous as well-emplaced snipers, and stealth specialists, and melee specialists in close quarters, and riggers safe in their vehicles.... Everything is powerful given optimal conditions.

[sk8bcn]

p 191, SR 3:

Manabolt and Manaball channel destructive magical power into the target, doing physical damage. As mana spells, they only affect living and magical targets and are resisted by Willpower (or Force). Manabolt affects a single target. Manaball is an area spell.



Powerbolt and Powerball channel destructive magical power into the target, doing physical damage. These spells affect both living and non-living targets and are resisted by the target’s Body. The target number for non-living targets can be found on the Object Resistance Table (p. 182). Powerbolt affects a single target. Powerball is an area spell.


Do the bolted parts mean thatpowerbolt doesn't affect spirits?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

p 191, SR 3:

Manabolt and Manaball channel destructive magical power into the target, doing physical damage. As mana spells, they only affect living and magical targets and are resisted by Willpower (or Force). Manabolt affects a single target. Manaball is an area spell.



Powerbolt and Powerball channel destructive magical power into the target, doing physical damage. These spells affect both living and non-living targets and are resisted by the target’s Body. The target number for non-living targets can be found on the Object Resistance Table (p. 182). Powerbolt affects a single target. Powerball is an area spell.


Do the bolted parts mean thatpowerbolt doesn't affect spirits?

No - Power Bolt affects Spirits. As they are either Living or Non-Living dependent upon your interpretation. What a Mana Bolt will not do is affect a Car, which a Power Bolt Will. If a Target has a Body Stat, it can be affected by Power Bolt. Still, Stun Bolt is better against Spirits - It has less Drain. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Pendaric]

Most spirits have a higher body than will power when materialised. You can also nail peeps on the astral with mana bolt but not power bolt. Stun bolt is great if you later get to rule 2.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Most spirits have a higher body than will power when materialised. You can also nail peeps on the astral with mana bolt but not power bolt. Stun bolt is great if you later get to rule 2.

Rule 2?
I far prefer Stun Bolt over Mana Bolt. And it is hard to pass on Power Bolt, though I have been known to do so from time to time.

[Pendaric]

Zombie land: rule 1 cardio ( runners for a reason) rule 2 Double tap

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Zombie land: rule 1 cardio ( runners for a reason) rule 2 Double tap

Hmmm... Still a bit unawares. I assume Zombie Land is a Show/Movie of some sort? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[KnightAries]

Hmmm... Still a bit unawares. I assume Zombie Land is a Show/Movie of some sort? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Horror comedy; Funny and in some way applicable to SR.

EDIT:
I'm adding thing IMBD link..
Zombieland

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Horror comedy; Funny and in some way applicable to SR.

Ahhh... Got it. Thanks KnightAries. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[sk8bcn]

p 191, SR 3:

As mana spells, they only affect living and magical targets and are resisted by Willpower (or Force).

ok!

Question 2 then: What is this reference for? Foci?

What is affected by mana bolts that aren't by force bolts?

[X-Kalibur]

ok!

Question 2 then: What is this reference for? Foci?

What is affected by mana bolts that aren't by force bolts?

If you mean powerbolt then you can't use it on astral targets. It's a physical spell which means it can only affect targets on the physical plane.