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> Some questions on the Matrix from a newbie!
Topper28
post May 13 2004, 01:32 PM
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This chapter is very hard for me to understand. I could really use some help if some of you guys have time to spare.

So I have my team make a run against a Medical company. They have to steal some things.

MEDLAB Technology system:

Orange-6 10/10/10/10/6

Here comes the newbie questions!:

Since the firm isnīt big enough to have a PLTG, can I assume they are on an LTG?

When the Decker jacks into the LTG is that a free action with no required tests?

I am thinking of using Tiered access for this system. With only one host directly connected to the grid. Can there only be 4 hosts in a system? (A|B|C|D|)

So to access the MEDLAB Tech, the decker needs to perform a Logon to host (A)!

Optional operations could be controlling security cameras, elevators, maglocks, finding data, downloading data, planting data, looping cameras ect.!

I assume that when the decker makes his Log on host test he is inside the host. From there he has access to 3 other hosts (SR3 example tiered access) (B|C|D)

Would the subsystems (access, control ect) be inside that host or inside one of the other hosts?

Exactly what is inside host A?

If the subsystem "Slave" is in one of the other hosts, the decker will have to make two seperate operations right? 1: log on host. 2: locate slave.

Then make additional operations to control slave ect.?

I am also a bit confused on how the "jacking in" part works. If the decker is inside a operation room, will he still need to "jack in"? Is there a physical access point in such a room? The decker will need to jack his deck into something?

Please help!!

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Shockwave_IIc
post May 13 2004, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE (Topper28)
This chapter is very hard for me to understand. I could really use some help if some of you guys have time to spare.

So I have my team make a run against a Medical company. They have to steal some things.

MEDLAB Technology system:

Orange-6 10/10/10/10/6

Here comes the newbie questions!:

Since the firm isnīt big enough to have a PLTG, can I assume they are on an LTG?

That is correct
QUOTE


When the Decker jacks into the LTG is that a free action with no required tests?
No i beleive you still have to logon, theres just a very slim chance of failure (If the decker half competent)
QUOTE

I am thinking of using Tiered access for this system. With only one host directly connected to the grid. Can there only be 4 hosts in a system? (A|B|C|D|)
As many as you like though only the bigger companys usually have more then 2
QUOTE

So to access the MEDLAB Tech, the decker needs to perform a Logon to host (A)!
Not quite it's a Logon to the host thats connected directly to the LTG, which grantes is A in most cases
QUOTE


Optional operations could be controlling security cameras, elevators, maglocks, finding data, downloading data, planting data, looping cameras ect.!

I assume that when the decker makes his Log on host test he is inside the host. From there he has access to 3 other hosts (SR3 example tiered access) (B|C|D)
Quite possibly, though it is possible to have to logon on to say B, before you can get to C or D (Think Security Check point if you don't Have the Matrix Book or know how a chock point works)
QUOTE

Would the subsystems (access, control ect) be inside that host or inside one of the other hosts?
Technically inside all of them, though you'd have to specify which effects you could garner from each.

Example: Controls for the Automated Death turrets could be only found in say D, But the Car park gate controls could be in A. But remember A,C,I,F,S will be in all of them.
QUOTE


Exactly what is inside host A?
Since your wanting a multi tiered system and A is the first you logon to from the Matrix proper. Quite likly very little of real worth
QUOTE


If the subsystem "Slave" is in one of the other hosts, the decker will have to make two seperate operations right? 1: log on host. 2: locate slave.
It won't be in the other host, it's just the the controls for what he's looking for might be. See my example above
QUOTE


Then make additional operations to control slave ect.?

I am also a bit confused on how the "jacking in" part works. If the decker is inside a operation room, will he still need to "jack in"? Is there a physical access point in such a room? The decker will need to jack his deck into something?

Please help!!

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I have hopefully
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TinkerGnome
post May 13 2004, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE
Since the firm isnīt big enough to have a PLTG, can I assume they are on an LTG?
Sounds reasonable to me.

QUOTE
When the Decker jacks into the LTG is that a free action with no required tests?
Nope, that's a "Log on to LTG" action. Difficulty depends on what grid he's logging on to. When you change grids, your security tally starts over again, though, so it's not too big a deal.

QUOTE
I am thinking of using Tiered access for this system. With only one host directly connected to the grid. Can there only be 4 hosts in a system? (A|B|C|D|)
I'm not aware of any hard limit on the number of hosts, but keep in mind that each one is a multi-million :nuyen: piece of electronics. You might have a green-orange-red configuration for a medical company, though. Green for public access, orange for workers, and red for medical data storage (which carries heavy liabilities).

Or, it may be a chokepoint configuration where you have a hard orange or red host which shields weaker orange and green hosts. That configuration is cheaper, but invites onsite decking much more.

QUOTE
So to access the MEDLAB Tech, the decker needs to perform a Logon to host (A)!
He'll need to log on to each host in turn as he moves through them. Fun fun.

QUOTE
I assume that when the decker makes his Log on host test he is inside the host. From there he has access to 3 other hosts (SR3 example tiered access) (B|C|D)
Decide on what each host does. It may well be that host A is a public server, host B is the generic employee server, C is security operations, and D is medical records. It could look like --< or ---- or even -E, though I think --< is probably the more likely.

QUOTE
If the subsystem "Slave" is in one of the other hosts, the decker will have to make two seperate operations right? 1: log on host. 2: locate slave.

Then make additional operations to control slave ect.?
Sounds about right. He'd have to be on the right host first, though ;)

QUOTE
I am also a bit confused on how the "jacking in" part works. If the decker is inside a operation room, will he still need to "jack in"? Is there a physical access point in such a room? The decker will need to jack his deck into something?
A jack point could drop you out into any one of the hosts, depending on where it's located. The most protected hosts would probably be the most protected jack points, etc. I'd wager that greens and blues would be easy to get to, orange would be available in most employee areas, and red only from the security or billing departments.
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hobgoblin
post May 13 2004, 02:13 PM
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and the realy heavy ones may well have scramble ice running on theyre access subsystems...

other then that most seems to have been answerd allready...
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Topper28
post May 13 2004, 03:05 PM
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Thanx for all the help.

My naivity continues:

Example:

The decker is trying to get into MEDLABīs system. He is accessing LTG. This requires a log on LTG operation. Once inside the grid, how can he find MEDLABīs host on the grid? Does he automaticcaly know where it is?

Well, eventually he finds it. He performs a log on host operation to enter MEDLABīs system. When he gets in heīs icon appears inside the host. He would like to lock all elevators except one specific elevator. This requires a locate slave operation right? If the slave subsystem isnīt in the host he currently is in he wonīt find the slave right? Even if he has enough successes on the locate slave test.

Can a decker only search the host he is in or does a locate slave operation scan the entire system?

example:

Once inside the first host, the decker makes a locate slave operation. He succeeds. But the slave isnīt located in that specific host he is in at the moment. The slave is in another host of the system. Does the decker get that information or does the GM simply say: "Thereīs no slave in this host!" Then the decker must access a different host and make the search again, until he finds the slave subsystem??

I have a tough time working out the graphics of a system but here goes. This is how I picture the system:

H=host
ACIFS=access/control/index/files/slave
G=grid (LTG)

----G-----H(A)------H(B)-------H©ACIFS

So the decker has to get in LTG, access Host A, access Host B and access Host C. Once inside Host C he performs operations to control the elevator since this is the place where the slave is located?

My head is spinning!!! I have no idea what I just wrote above.

Dang it, matrix is tough!!

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TinkerGnome
post May 13 2004, 03:12 PM
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QUOTE
The decker is trying to get into MEDLABīs system. He is accessing LTG. This requires a log on LTG operation. Once inside the grid, how can he find MEDLABīs host on the grid? Does he automaticcaly know where it is?
Nope. Locate Access Node action.

QUOTE
Well, eventually he finds it. He performs a log on host operation to enter MEDLABīs system. When he gets in heīs icon appears inside the host. He would like to lock all elevators except one specific elevator. This requires a locate slave operation right? If the slave subsystem isnīt in the host he currently is in he wonīt find the slave right? Even if he has enough successes on the locate slave test.
Yes. Once in the first host, he can try a locate slave action and 3 successes will tell him if it's there or not. If it's not, he can log into the next host and try again. He'll find it eventually. Or, alternatively, you might let him do a Matrix search beforehand that will net him some info about how the system is (or at least was) set up. This might lead him to going straight to host B before trying to locate the slave.

QUOTE
Can a decker only search the host he is in or does a locate slave operation scan the entire system?
You can only perform actions inside your current host.

QUOTE
Dang it, matrix is tough!!
It's tough to learn but easy to use ;)

ACIFS isn't quite the way you're thinking about it, I'm afraid. The ratings are much more akin to a character's attributes than anything else and simply represent the difficulty of accessing a part of that system's resources. So if a system has a Slave rating of 12, that means the slave system is heavily protected and that you'll need to beat a 12 to access (or locate) any slave on that system. The same goes for Files and the rest.
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Shockwave_IIc
post May 13 2004, 03:17 PM
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I might be wrong but you seemed to be confused (a little) about what Slave is. You don't have all the Slaves in host A (or B or C for that matter).

Slave is the Generic term used to discribe any "program" that controls a Physical thing (in your case elevators)

So If the decker is in Host A and looks for the elevator Controls (locate Slave) but they are not there (after getting3 succes's), then the Gm turns round and says "The Slave for the levators doesn't appear to be no this host.

Thus the decker then has to deside wheather or not to logon to Host B to see if they are there, But remember in this case his tally WILL carry over (hence why most deckers hope what they are looking for is no the first host)
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Topper28
post May 13 2004, 03:28 PM
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Shockwave, could you draw me some graphics so I can see what it would look like?

The team needs to get to the 24th floor. Elevators
They need to steal data. Files

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Shockwave_IIc
post May 13 2004, 03:36 PM
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Sorry im not sure what your asking for.

Slaves and Files can Technically placed anywhere (Host A,B or Y and Z if you like) It's just that the more Important the company deams the Slave/Files the more Host's the decker will have to logon to and through and thus the more likly they will get detected.
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Topper28
post May 13 2004, 03:37 PM
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Can I find a big Matrix scene example somewhere?

Where a newbie can be guided through some of the basic steps. (Rules wise)

The examples in the core book is simply too short to fully grasp the bigger picture.

I guess I am looking for detailed description on:

How to log on to a LTG, RTG, ect.
How to search for a specific host.
How to enter a Host
How to find subsystems
ect...!!
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Eyeless Blond
post May 13 2004, 03:41 PM
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Heh, I know exactly what you mean; most of the Matrix rules are pretty out there. Let me see if I can clear up one thing for you, though: the subsystems.

The big thing to realize here is that *every* host has ACIFS subsystems. Think of them like attributes for the host, much like every deck has an MPCP , Bod, Sensor, and (for deckers) Evasion and Masking ratings. It's not so much whether the subsystem exists so much as whether or not it's connected to anything. For instance, with your nested host model it may be that only host D's Slave subsystem is "connected" to the elevators; all the other hosts have Slave subsystems, but none of them are connected to the elevators.

So what are all the other hosts' subsystems for? Well, it depends on the setup. Maybe host A is a chokepoint (Orange-hard or Red), and the only thing it's connected to is host B. In that case, both the Files and Slave subsystems are pretty much useless, because they connect to nothing at all. They still exist, though, for the same reason the chokepoint exists in the first place: to force an invading decker to waste his time and up his security tally searching around inside this host for things that aren't there. OTOH, maybe host A is the public server (Blue or Green), and has files on it that aren't mission-critical in any way, that are essentially public-domain. You wouldn't hook the elevators up to such a server because they should have restricted access; the easygoing public server would allow everyone to have complete control over the elevators, which doesn't make sense.

In any case, now you should be able to figure out the answers to your own slave questions. First off, no, a decker cannot logon to host A and use "Locate Slave" to find a slave hooked up to host C. There is no "scan the entire system" command; each host is its own completely seperate system, with its own ACIFS ratings and the like. That the decker would most likely have to do is go to Host A, attempt to Locate Slave(the elevators), find nothing, then move on to Host B (of course he'd have to *find* it first), then Locate Slave again, etc.


By the way, now you see why it begins to drag a bit when you have several hosts daisy-chainned together like this. This is why a few of the posters above have suggested that you make your network a bit smaller. By the time your decker has gotten all the way to finding Host D he's probably accrued a bit of a tally, and the moment he logs on he's going to be getting hit with a small swarm of IC. Remember that whenever you log on to a new host you take your Security Tally with you, and so you automatically trigger everything on the sheaf up to your current tally right when you log on.

You're also facing some belivability issues here; hosts in SR are expensive. I'd be surprised if a mid-size lab could afford more than two, let alone four, especially since the lab you're building isn't rich enough to have its own PLTG.
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Topper28
post May 13 2004, 03:43 PM
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Let me just get this straight!!

Each host also has all the subsystems inbeded right? But not all of the subsystems have usable info in them?

example:

The first host (A) have all the ACIFS subsystems embeded, but they donīt do anything. Host (B) have all ACIFS subsystems, and store files, Host © have all ACIFS subsystems, and have all the slaves systems (Elevators, cameras, drones ect!)

Do each host have more than one working subsystem?
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Erebus
post May 13 2004, 03:47 PM
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Thats entirely up to you, and how you want the system designed...

Edit: But as someone already mentioned each host is a multi-million :nuyen: investment, so most small local corps usually only have a single host if their lucky. Bigger corps = bigger matrix assests. In your case, remember that Hosts do NOT need to be connected to the matrix either. Perhaps this place has a public host that faces the world, and another non-public one only accessible from on-site.



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Eyeless Blond
post May 13 2004, 03:52 PM
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Yes, now you're beginning to get it!

And yes, a host can have more than one subsystem active, just like a decker can have both Sensor and Bod ratings at the same time. :) Remember, ACIFS subsystems are nothing more or less than the "attributes" of the host; each of them tells you how difficult it is to do that particular action on that host illegally*. The Access rating tells you how hard it is to get into a host. The Control rating tells you how hard it is to, for example, forcibly crash the host or validate an account. Index tells you how difficult it is to look for something. Files controls file access, Slave controls peripheral acces (like elevators, maglocks, etc).

*When you're using a valid account you don't have to roll against these subsystem ratings to do things you're authorized to do; this is what makes the Validate program so valuable, and explains why most GMs are real hardasses about the Control subsystem. :D
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Shockwave_IIc
post May 13 2004, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
*When you're using a valid account you don't have to roll against these subsystem ratings to do things you're authorized to do; this is what makes the Validate program so valuable, and explains why most GMs are real hardasses about the Control subsystem. :D

Quite frequently 2 points higher then the next highest.

Also remember Most companys which are as small (big?) as the one you suggest will proberly have all there important stuff (whether they are files or Elevator controls) on the second host (B in the daisy chain example)
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Topper28
post May 13 2004, 04:03 PM
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ok, I am beginning to get that part of it. Now, for tallyīs and IC.

Do all hosts have the same security measures?

The decker gains access to host A. 1 tally. now he enters host B which gives him additional 1 tally. He has to go back to host A, to get to host C, and gets 2 tallyīs when re-entering host A. (4 total) This will activate a Probe-5 security measure. Does all hosts have the same security? I mean does it matter which host I am in? the system will send the security measure the equals the tallyīs accumilated? (3,7,10,13)

So it doesnīt matter if I am in Host A,B,C,D right. The current host will automatically send the the security measure?
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Eyeless Blond
post May 13 2004, 04:18 PM
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Well, not really, no. Each host has its own, usually unique, security sheaf, just like each ost has its own color (Orange, Blue, etc), Security Rating, and ACIFS subsystems. The one on page 211 is a sample, not one that applies to every host. Note that this is different than the Security Tally, which is something that belongs to the decker's Icon, a temporary value like the Condition Monitor (damage). What security measure(s) you activate depend entirely on which host--and thus which security sheaf--you are on.

The only thing every host has in common is that the first trigger in every security sheaf is Probe IC.
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TinkerGnome
post May 13 2004, 04:22 PM
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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
The only thing every host has in common is that the first trigger in every security sheaf is Probe IC.

Well, it doesn't HAVE to be (though it's usually good for the host if it is). Matrix has rules for generating a random security sheaf.
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Shockwave_IIc
post May 13 2004, 04:23 PM
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The secruirty Tally is Compared to the Security Sheaf to see what IC (and alerts) will be actvated.

So using your Example: A tally of 4 Actvates The Probe on Host A but on Host C (when he gets there) it Might actvated the probe AND a Tar Baby
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Swing Kid
post May 13 2004, 04:23 PM
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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
The only thing every host has in common is that the first trigger in every security sheaf is Probe IC.

Uh...where'd I miss that one? (First IC always a Probe IC). Not flaming ya, its just that the thread caught me off guard. :eek:
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Shockwave_IIc
post May 13 2004, 04:24 PM
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Most commonly. Not always as TinkerGnome said.
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Shockwave_IIc
post May 13 2004, 04:26 PM
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QUOTE (TinkerGnome)
Matrix has rules for generating a random security sheaf.

And if you want to Cheat. Heres a link to an Online one Clicky
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Swing Kid
post May 13 2004, 04:26 PM
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I think me and TinkerGnome were typing at the same time
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TinkerGnome
post May 13 2004, 04:28 PM
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Sounds like someone needs to do a quick example run to make sure we've covered everything ;)
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Swing Kid
post May 13 2004, 04:32 PM
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Good thinking
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