IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

5 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Astral stregnth, Can you move physical pbjects?
Joker9125
post May 13 2004, 11:33 PM
Post #1


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 606
Joined: 17-December 03
Member No.: 5,909



ok heres the situation lets say you are an astrally projecting mage with a charisma of 5 which means you have a stregnth of 5 on the astral. Now you happen to come across some unconcious dual natured critter.

Could you pick it up and move it? Are their any rules for this type of thing? If so where are they?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BitBasher
post May 14 2004, 01:30 AM
Post #2


Traumatizing players since 1992
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,282
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Las Vegas, NV
Member No.: 220



No. Astral forms have no mass. You can damage the dual critter with astral attack but if you force your arms to move as if you were picking it up your arms will pass through it forcing an aural intersection. I don't think I just used the right term, but it means you resist damage.

Purely astral forms basically have no mass, and having no mass means you cannot exert force on anything physical.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kanada Ten
post May 14 2004, 01:35 AM
Post #3


Beetle Eater
********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 4,797
Joined: 3-June 02
From: Oblivion City
Member No.: 2,826



The only thing I can think of would be Possession or a Control manipulation.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BitBasher
post May 14 2004, 01:39 AM
Post #4


Traumatizing players since 1992
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,282
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Las Vegas, NV
Member No.: 220



The control manipulation would have to be mana based, if levitate person would work on the target then I would think you could move a dual natured target with it while you are projecting.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Joker9125
post May 14 2004, 02:00 AM
Post #5


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 606
Joined: 17-December 03
Member No.: 5,909



Ok so if i cast levitate on him he would be effictively weightless so could i effective "push" said creature?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Herald of Verjig...
post May 14 2004, 02:09 AM
Post #6


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,066
Joined: 5-February 03
Member No.: 4,017



If you get a mana type levitate spell, you can move your target that way.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Joker9125
post May 14 2004, 02:18 AM
Post #7


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 606
Joined: 17-December 03
Member No.: 5,909



ok so no I caint push him after I cast levitate. This is good cause im suprised no one has thought of FAB gloves yet. Think about it an astral form putting on physical gloves and hitting you at the speed of thought.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Frag-o Delux
post May 14 2004, 02:26 AM
Post #8


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,213
Joined: 10-March 02
From: Back from the abyss.
Member No.: 2,316



Or the fab gloves tearing his arms off because of what Bit Basher said. Astral forms can not pick up or move physical things and the dual form passing through a astral form causes a battle between the 2.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Joker9125
post May 14 2004, 02:33 AM
Post #9


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 606
Joined: 17-December 03
Member No.: 5,909



right i am well aware of what bit basher said. I may not have been clear with my earlier post when i said

QUOTE (Joker9125)
ok so no I caint push him after I cast levitate. This is good cause im suprised no one has thought of FAB gloves yet.


What i meant was it is good that this is not possible
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Frag-o Delux
post May 14 2004, 02:50 AM
Post #10


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,213
Joined: 10-March 02
From: Back from the abyss.
Member No.: 2,316



Yes it is, cause then the Mage population in a lot fo peoples games would be the exact opposite of what is stated in the books. :)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Joker9125
post May 14 2004, 03:27 AM
Post #11


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 606
Joined: 17-December 03
Member No.: 5,909



Yea. Im guilty of chronic mage playing. Is their some type of rehab center i can goto for help?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dweller on the T...
post May 14 2004, 03:36 AM
Post #12


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 21
Joined: 13-May 04
Member No.: 6,326



Where are you coming up with the idea that an astral form lacks mass? Astral forms simply exist on the astral plane and purely physical objects have no effect on them whatsoever. The rules for Astral Constructs repeatedly state that items on the astral plane have all the normal properties of a physical object, and that includes weight.

Joker's idea for an astral form to move a dual-being's body around is pretty brilliant and a wonderful insight that I had never considered before, and by all indications in the rules it would work just fine as long as he had the astral Strength, defined by his Charisma while projecting as your Mentral Attributes do indeed become your Physical Attributes in that state, to lift and move the dual-being. The only problem is that while the astral form could slip through walls or move at the speed of thought, the dual-being it would be carrying restricts him from doing those things due to its presence on the physical plane.

It's a very neat idea with a lot of interesting possibilities. Thanks for sharing it, Joker9125!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Joker9125
post May 14 2004, 03:42 AM
Post #13


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 606
Joined: 17-December 03
Member No.: 5,909



Well I guess the idea of FAB gloves are back in! they would be rediciously expensive and only last a few hours but what the hey! Its still pretty awsome.

Unless someone can point to a page number stating that astral forms have no mass.

and can you please give a page number for this

QUOTE
The rules for Astral Constructs repeatedly state that items on the astral plane have all the normal properties of a physical object, and that includes weight.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dweller on the T...
post May 14 2004, 03:44 AM
Post #14


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 21
Joined: 13-May 04
Member No.: 6,326



You can find it on page 100 of Target Awakened Lands. FAB Gloves would be a huge hindrance since they would have to be dual-natured to be effective, which by definition means they restrict you to physical actions. You wouldn't be able to move at super fast speeds, you wouldn't be able to move through walls, and anyone could see the gloves floating around.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ancient History
post May 14 2004, 03:47 AM
Post #15


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 6,748
Joined: 5-July 02
Member No.: 2,935



FAB is not an astral construct. FAB gloves would be the equivalent in putting your hand in a FAB net and trying to pick it up (read: bad idea).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Frag-o Delux
post May 14 2004, 03:50 AM
Post #16


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,213
Joined: 10-March 02
From: Back from the abyss.
Member No.: 2,316



I got the idea from reading a piece of fluff. I can't rememebr the book. A mage was caught in a FAB net and crushed to death. Surely a Chrisma of 3 (average person) would be able to hold up a net.

EDIT: And I think the speed of thought will be inhibated by the physical properties of the gloves. Moving at the speed f thought on the astral happens because the special properties of the astral plane.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eyeless Blond
post May 14 2004, 03:54 AM
Post #17


Decker on the Threshold
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,922
Joined: 14-March 04
Member No.: 6,156



Even if it weren't for those particular rules, having astral objects be immobile wouldn't really make a whole lot of sense. The idea of having to fight everything you touch... ugh, it turns the astral plane into an old video game. :P It would also mean that you couldn't use weapon foci in astral form, because attempting to move it would put you in combat with it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kanada Ten
post May 14 2004, 03:59 AM
Post #18


Beetle Eater
********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 4,797
Joined: 3-June 02
From: Oblivion City
Member No.: 2,826



Eyeless, what do you mean? When one projects the dual-natured weapon focus projects with him or her leaving behind its physical form. Having Dual-Natured objects be immobile to Astral Beings is canon (SR3, Astral Countermeasures, Guardian Vines, Awakened Ivy).

Astral Constructs are Dual-Natured and thus have physical properties.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dweller on the T...
post May 14 2004, 03:59 AM
Post #19


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 21
Joined: 13-May 04
Member No.: 6,326



The rules for FAB Strain-II just reiterate the fact that this would work as described above. The airborne form of FAB-II is dual-natured, so it limits the movement of astral forms to the equivalence of physical speeds since they have to push the FAB out of their way as they pass through.

EDIT: Astral Constructs aren't dual-natured. They have no presence on the physical plane. I don't see anything about biofiber or guardian vines that says they're immovable. The only thing I see is that guardian vines have an astral form that can move independantly of their physical forms making them more like an astrally projecting mage than a real dual-being. Since biofiber is basically a wall, moving one around is as unlikely as moving around a real wall.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kanada Ten
post May 14 2004, 04:02 AM
Post #20


Beetle Eater
********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 4,797
Joined: 3-June 02
From: Oblivion City
Member No.: 2,826



Yes they are or no mundane could visit one without an Astral Rift.

2062 - On January 2, In Chicago, Illinois, UCAS, the Sears Tower appears in its old location from sunup to sundown, when it just as mysteriously vanishes. Several people who have been exploring the building are reported to have been injured or killed. (Target: Awakened Lands)


This post has been edited by Kanada Ten: May 14 2004, 04:03 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dweller on the T...
post May 14 2004, 04:04 AM
Post #21


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 21
Joined: 13-May 04
Member No.: 6,326



The rules for astral rifts are completely different from astral constructs.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kanada Ten
post May 14 2004, 04:07 AM
Post #22


Beetle Eater
********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 4,797
Joined: 3-June 02
From: Oblivion City
Member No.: 2,826



Mundanes cannot interact with Astral Space without an Astral Rift or Portal. Thus they could not interact with an Astral Constuct unless it was Dual-Natured, which they are.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dweller on the T...
post May 14 2004, 04:08 AM
Post #23


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 21
Joined: 13-May 04
Member No.: 6,326



Please read the rules in question. To paraphrase Inigo Montoya, "I don't think those rules mean what you think they mean." They specifically state that they have no effect on the physical world.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kanada Ten
post May 14 2004, 04:09 AM
Post #24


Beetle Eater
********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 4,797
Joined: 3-June 02
From: Oblivion City
Member No.: 2,826



QUOTE
They specifically state that they have no effect on the physical world.

2062 - On January 2, In Chicago, Illinois, UCAS, the Sears Tower appears in its old location from sunup to sundown, when it just as mysteriously vanishes. Several people who have been exploring the building are reported to have been injured or killed. (Target: Awakened Lands)

T:AL even talks about mundanes taking things from an Astral Construct. The spirit ruler must approve but it can be done. When the Construct disappears from the physical plane it leaves no trace - thus the 'has no effect on the physical world' statement. If they had no presence on the physical plane how could mundanes climb into them?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dweller on the T...
post May 14 2004, 04:21 AM
Post #25


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 21
Joined: 13-May 04
Member No.: 6,326



Quoting that repeatedly doesn't change anything except that you've obviously confused astral shallows with astral constructs.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

5 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 12th July 2024 - 09:46 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.