Is Artificing with Arcana really cheap?, Rules questions Options

[FriendoftheDork]

Hello

I was pouring over the rules for making foci with Artificing skill. Now, if you have to buy a Focus formula, the cost is 1/4 of the final focus, which I think is fair considering the time and karma invested in actually making it, although the D&D equivalent is 1/2 of market price. The issue is instead when you use the Arcana skill to make your own. Making a force 3 formula takes a 4-5 days if your dice pool is around 10, and cost absolutely nothing. A force 3 Power Focus is over 50k nuyen, so that's more than 10k nuyen for only a few days of completely safe work. Aside from the original karma investment in the skill, thats a great way to save money.
The cost is only 18 drams of reagens, which is 360 nuyen, a pittance. So for 360 nuyen worth of drams (assuming you did not collect them yourself) and a couple of weeks of crafting, you get an item worth 50k+ nuyen which is pretty powerful for a starting character. The main cost is the 3 karma to craft it, and then 18 karma to bond it.

Am I right so far? It seem to me that in a low-power street level campaign investing in these skills is an obvious choice as getting the money for the foci is tough, and even in a normal game the main cost of Bonding is still necessary for those with hundreds of thousands of nuyen to spend on gear. For comparison, Binding a Spirit costs 25 drams times Force while crafting costs 2-6 drams times
Force.


So why is so cheap to craft foci? The main cost is the karma and risk involved, but you would think that in a campaign with good gear paying even 10 times the amount of drams is a pittance.
Tbe main issue is Arcana really, as the difficulty is only based of Force, while the result is more valuable depending on the type of focus (Power being pricier than Spell). If the Arcana test was exceedingly more difficult depending on type of object, I can understand formulae being priced differently, but right now it takes the same time and effort to create a Force 6 Power focus as a Force 6 Spell focus, while the former is 3 times more expensive.
Possible fix: Arcana test is Force*X extended test rather than Force*Force, with X being 3 for Qi, Spell, Enchanting and Spirit foci; 4 for Weapon and Metamagic foci, and 6 for Power foci. That means you need a reasonably skilled guy to make Force 2 Power focus formula, while higher forces requires really skilled and specialized Arcana makers. High skill together with time consumed makes a very valuable item in Shadowrun.

[Coldstone]

Huh. is it really that cheap? Semi surprising, but I can think of a few reason why.

1) hard to obtain resources make it easier to enchant, from exotic telesma to orichalcum (whish is what, 20k a dram iirc?). Your off-the-shelf items are probably made to be and look reliable, which means expensive materials were used in their making to help milk the price.

2) Niche market - only people wanting a power foci will be interested in buying one. It's not a casual curiosity market where you can buy it, push a few buttons, then return it if you're not satisfied. The price tag helps make sure you're serious about it.

3) self-crafting works better for magical goods than everyday items, partly due to a few quirks in concept. Snipe enthusiasts can buy a beaten up rifle and fix it up, but technically, 'designing a brand new model' is not possible (modifying a standard design, at least, is covered, thank goodness). Magic goods still require a karma cost though. It's basically a player reward to show that you're serious enough about your craft to make your own tools if you got the workspace for it (or to rent).

4) risk of special requirements: generally speaking, you don't run the risk of a crazy sword that makes you obsessed (as much) buying it from a legit shop than making it yourself. That is not including foci addiction, granted.

EDIT: helps if I remind myself this is 5th ed, not 4th. Some of those answers may be invalid. Bah. >.<

[FriendoftheDork]

Huh. is it really that cheap? Semi surprising, but I can think of a few reason why.

1) hard to obtain resources make it easier to enchant, from exotic telesma to orichalcum (whish is what, 20k a dram iirc?). Your off-the-shelf items are probably made to be and look reliable, which means expensive materials were used in their making to help milk the price.

2) Niche market - only people wanting a power foci will be interested in buying one. It's not a casual curiosity market where you can buy it, push a few buttons, then return it if you're not satisfied. The price tag helps make sure you're serious about it.

3) self-crafting works better for magical goods than everyday items, partly due to a few quirks in concept. Snipe enthusiasts can buy a beaten up rifle and fix it up, but technically, 'designing a brand new model' is not possible (modifying a standard design, at least, is covered, thank goodness). Magic goods still require a karma cost though. It's basically a player reward to show that you're serious enough about your craft to make your own tools if you got the workspace for it (or to rent).

4) risk of special requirements: generally speaking, you don't run the risk of a crazy sword that makes you obsessed (as much) buying it from a legit shop than making it yourself. That is not including foci addiction, granted.

EDIT: helps if I remind myself this is 5th ed, not 4th. Some of those answers may be invalid. Bah. >.<

Yeah SR 5 cost in drams of reagens is equal to the karma cost to bond the focus, which is 6*force for the most expensive one. A dram (orichalcum or not) is 20 nuyen, so it is dirt cheap no matter what. The only expensive component is the formula as it is based on focus cost.
So no, it's not hard to obtain materials, and it does not make sense for a producer to try to find the most expensive raw materials possible (for the telesma) in order to drive prices up, as competition could easily drive them down. Assuming a market economy for foci, it just does not make sense. However, prices seem to be based on how powerful they, and IMO so should the crafting rules do as well (so far they are based on only power, not type).

It's definitely a niche market, just as you could say the same for high grade military munitions, but they are still not randomly priced, but based on the cost of production as well as demand. Any mage would want a power focus rather than a spellcasting focus if they could, the only reason they dont all is that its more expensive.

The main cost of crafting is still the karma cost as well as the risk of losing essence, so it's not for everyone, but the creation process should still be based on the prices (or the prices based on creation process). For balance reasons, the component cost of foci should be higher as right now there is no reason for a mage to not dump resources and use the extra skills points for crafting skills, before those resources could be needed for foci.

[Jaid]

as i recall, the rolls to successfully make your own focus are not what i would generally describe as trivial. at least, not for any focus of great power.

[FriendoftheDork]

High Force foci are hard to make, but low force is fairly trivial and almost free.