Ritual Spellcasting or just use a Power Focus?, If I’m interpreting this correctly Options

[JanessaVR]

Assume the target of a spell isn’t on the other side of the world, but is instead easily accessed. It will be a bit of a tough nut to crack, however, so some extra “oomph” would be a good idea.

Our subject is again Morgana the Mage. She has a Magic of 6, a Spellcasting skill of 6, a Ritual Spellcasting skill of 6, and knows a few dozen spells. Assume that she also has 5 other mage friends with the same stats, that all of them are of the same tradition, and they have access to a Force 6 Lodge.


Option #1 – Ritual Spellcasting
As per the rules for Ritual Spellcasting in the SR4A Core Rules, pp. 184 – 185, the base dice pool is the leader’s (Morgana) Magic + Ritual Spellcasting. Each other participant (5 in this case), also rolls Magic + Ritual Spellcasting, and their hits are added to her dice pool for when she makes her roll.

Now, being somewhat conservative, and assuming a 1/3rd success rate, each of the other participants is rolling 12 dice and will get 4 hits each, equaling 20 hits total for all of their efforts combined. Morgana will then be rolling 12 + 20 (= 32) dice, which should really get the job done; she should get 11 hits.

Then again, not so fast, maybe she won’t. On page 185, under “Casting a Ritual Spell,” it refers to Teamwork Tests on page 65. Consulting that page, under “Teamwork Tests,” it says “The maximum dice bonus the primary character can receive from teamwork is equal to that character’s skill.” So really, her friends have helpfully contributed 20 dice for her use, but she can actually only use 6 of them. The whole thing was largely wasted effort. Her actual dice pool would be 12 + 6 (= 18) dice instead, giving her 6 hits.


Option #2 – Don’t Bother, Just Get a Power Focus Instead
If the best she can get is 6 extra dice, why not just use a Force 6 Power Focus, which will do the same thing? Magic 6 + Spellcasting 6 + Power Focus 6 is also 18 dice, and no need to bother asking 5 other people to help her out.


Am I interpreting this correctly? If so, then the only real use for Ritual Spellcasting I can see is if you need to affect a target that’s far away. If you can see it, then it’s a total waste of time and effort.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You are indeed correct. Ritual Spellcasting assistance from team members is a Teamwork Test.
A Power Focus 6 will give your theoretical Mage the same benefit.
BUT, That ritual team adds 6 dice as well, so with both, that is 12 dice.

I really like Ritual Spellcasting. It has its uses. And you do not need more than yourself to do it; though more is better as it will potentially add additional dice up to your Skill to your roll. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[JanessaVR]

You are indeed correct. Ritual Spellcasting assistance from team members is a Teamwork Test.
A Power Focus 6 will give your theoretical Mage the same benefit.
BUT, That ritual team adds 6 dice as well, so with both, that is 12 dice.

I really like Ritual Spellcasting. It has its uses. And you do not need more than yourself to do it; though more is better as it will potentially add additional dice up to your Skill to your roll. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That is a good point. Taking that into account, Morgana would only need 2 other mages. Assuming they contribute 4 hits each, she can use 6 of those 8. That would give her Magic 6 + Spellcasting 6 + Power Focus 6 + Ritual Assistance 6 = 24 dice = 8 hits.

[bannockburn]

In your example it's pretty obvious that ritual spellcasting is superior.
It is meant to access difficult to reach targets, not the magician next door.

However, it is not just "simple" to use a force 6 power focus. These things are hard to find or create, and expensive in monetary terms as well as expensive to bind. Of course they are very powerful for that price, and in a situation where the target is easily accessible.
And, as TJ already noted: A ritual can also include power foci.

So, in a nutshell: It depends on what you want to do.

[Jaid]

also, don't teamwork tests increase your limit as well?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

also, don't teamwork tests increase your limit as well?

Yes, By 1...

[Mantis]

Well JanessaVR plays 4th ed so limits don't really matter. The only limit there is the spell force and that is a limit the magician gets to choose.

[JanessaVR]

Well JanessaVR plays 4th ed so limits don't really matter. The only limit there is the spell force and that is a limit the magician gets to choose.

I own most of the SR5 books so far, but I confess I've only occasionally skimmed them. I thought most of the spells looked familiar when I skimmed over them, but is there some big difference in mechanics in basic spellcasting from 4e to 5e? I only picked them up to mine for tidbits that we might use in our house-rules-added version of 4e, but I only occasionally actually get around to this.

[Draco18s]

By the way, look at the fallout for a successful ritual cast. ALL members must resist the full drain!

[MrGlee]

I own most of the SR5 books so far, but I confess I've only occasionally skimmed them. I thought most of the spells looked familiar when I skimmed over them, but is there some big difference in mechanics in basic spellcasting from 4e to 5e? I only picked them up to mine for tidbits that we might use in our house-rules-added version of 4e, but I only occasionally actually get around to this.

Only minor stuff, simple action spells for more drain, being able to spend reagents to increase or set a limit on a spell(for example, spend some reagents to let a force 1 spell allow up to five hits or a force 12 spell only allow one), drain being based on number of hits on the spell(less than magic it is stun, more than magic it is physical), and AoE combat spells working like grenades as oppose to allowing a chance to avoid them. Oh, and counterspelling being a pool of dice for the combat round, rather than just being added to resisting spells.