Earthdawn Airships in the Sixth World, And other “always on” magical items – how to create them? Options

[JanessaVR]

plants have a proven track record of scrubbing CO2 out of the air that goes back hundreds of millions of years. they are extremely reliable, and won't break down just because a part got worn out. they do not require that you carry extra parts, and they are also good at reclaiming other waste products. they additionally provide valuable resources including food, building materials, fabric, medicine, and even some recreational drugs.

if you're going to go someplace so far into deep space that a small-scale infinite power source is worth the investment described (and therefore are not within range to get any replacement parts for machines), then why would you use anything other than plants to keep your air supply clean?

(i can certainly understand wanting to have emergency backup systems to rapidly replenish air supplies, but for the long haul, it really just makes sense to use plants).

It's a question of size required, which adds weight, which means more fuel required and a higher ship construction cost. For a ship that just does Earth to Mars round trips - maybe. Plants take time to produce food, and IIRC, a good yardstick is 1 acre of land per person per year to grow food. If you're transporting 100 people, do you really want to have to build a ship that has 100 acres of space inside? Investing in a permanent magic item enchanted with the Hibernate spell, or using an endless electricity item to power 2070's biostasis chambers both seem like way better ideas to me. A nice compact ship, with the passengers as cargo and the piloting computer doing the driving.

EDIT:

On the other hand, if I were building a Space Habitat, absolutely, bring in and grow as many plants as possible. Everywhere you can cram in another plant, do it. Not just for the physical benefits you've pointed out, but they also help provide as much of a manasphere as possible for the place.

This begs the question - just how much vegetation is required to equal Earth's manasphere? How much to compensate from -12 to 0? The Ares Eden space station is described as having an "anemic" manasphere, so what if we built one ten times that size? A hundred times bigger? A thousand times bigger? This discussion does raise some other interesting questions as well.

[Sengir]

I would have to read up on this, but I think it was implied that foveae (also voids) are connected to corruption. There are first mentioned in the Aztlan sourcebook.

They have the same "10D6 sanity loss" effect as other bad things man was not supposed to know, but I don't think they are directly connected. The Horrors exist in periods of extremely high magic and therefore would presumably also have a difficult time in mana voids...

And thanks for the source, somehow my CTRL+F didn't find it

[lokii]

This begs the question - just how much vegetation is required to equal Earth's manasphere? How much to compensate from -12 to 0? The Ares Eden space station is described as having an "anemic" manasphere, so what if we built one ten times that size? A hundred times bigger? A thousand times bigger? This discussion does raise some other interesting questions as well.

I would tend to think that Earth's manasphere can probably not be replicated, just because I think the living aura of the planet should make a difference. But really we lack the information to answer that. Though I would point out that the old Tom Dowd short story "Hunter and Prey" introduces the idea of training to cope with the reduced mana in space and actually becoming more powerful through that process:

"Nowhere on the Earth, perhaps, but what of above it?" [..] "I've shaped power among the stars and danced with hearts far darker than yours."

The Horrors exist in periods of extremely high magic and therefore would presumably also have a difficult time in mana voids...

Just for argument's sake while it is true that some of the most powerful horrors seemed to be able to manifest into the world only at the height of the mana cycle that's not necessarily true for most of the horrors. What we know is that they only have access to Earth during a high mana phase because of the "distance" between the worlds. But given that they were ready to invade what I imagine is a rather mana-impoverished early Sixth World, I assume that would have survived that invasion. We know Ysrthgrathe could exist in the Shadowrun era.

(BTW: What happens to background count 0 when the mana level rises is a good question.)

Anyway yes, if horrors are magical creatures, mana voids should be unhealty for them. I'm unsure whether there was something beside foveae, that gave me the impression they could be different.

As for a space shelter: The horrors can still hurl a projectile at it and since the sheltered population should create a weak manasphere, they can probably find their way there.

[JanessaVR]

I would tend to think that Earth's manasphere can probably not be replicated, just because I think the living aura of the planet should make a difference. But really we lack the information to answer that. Though I would point out that the old Tom Dowd short story "Hunter and Prey" introduces the idea of training to cope with the reduced mana in space and actually becoming more powerful through that process:

I'm going to have to disagree here. If manaspheres can be generated off of Earth (as the Ares Eden space station demonstrates), then I'm going to rule that a manasphere with a 0 rating can be done, it's just a question of how much life you need in one spot. I imagine it would be a fairly large amount.

Just for argument's sake while it is true that some of the most powerful horrors seemed to be able to manifest into the world only at the height of the mana cycle that's not necessarily true for most of the horrors. What we know is that they only have access to Earth during a high mana phase because of the "distance" between the worlds. But given that they were ready to invade what I imagine is a rather mana-impoverished early Sixth World, I assume that would have survived that invasion. We know Ysrthgrathe could exist in the Shadowrun era.

That Ysrthgrathe made it through to Earth so early in the mana cycle has always bugged me, as it's inconsistent with the rest of the cosmology that says the "Big Boys" of the Horrors can't come through so early in the cycle. It's in my house rules that this didn't happen. The events of Harlequin's Back, yes, but not Worlds Without End.

[Sendaz]

That Ysrthgrathe made it through to Earth so early in the mana cycle has always bugged me, as it's inconsistent with the rest of the cosmology that says the "Big Boys" of the Horrors can't come through so early in the cycle. It's in my house rules that this didn't happen. The events of Harlequin's Back, yes, but not Worlds Without End.

To be fair, Ysrthie was also in a pact/horror marking with Aine, so she could well have been unwittingly providing the anchor to allow him across, albeit briefly.

Most of the time, the victims of the horrors were long gone before the next cycle came around so they didn't have that link to pop over early, but having an IE on tap probably served as the exception to the rule.
He couldn't come anytime, but when the mana was back on the rise, he had a head start on things.

[lokii]

(BTW: What happens to background count 0 when the mana level rises is a good question.)

Expanding on this a little. Let's once more go with the sine manacycle. Right now we are in a linear growth phase. Reusing the formula from before:
p = sin[(current_year-2011)*(PI/5200)]*100
year = arcsin(p/100)*(5200/PI) + 2011

Roughly speaking 2% is 2044, 4% is 2077. That means background count 0 in 2077 represents twice the amount of available ambient mana compared to zero in 2044. Of course we don't know how the background count rating relates to mana decrease or increase. I wonder if the Great Ghost Dance spike was far off the scale.

[Stahlseele]

That means background count 0 in 2077 represents twice the amount of available ambient mana compared to zero in 2044.

Err . . 2 x 0 = 0 ? O.o
Or am i missing something here? x.x

[lokii]

Err . . 2 x 0 = 0 ? O.o
Or am i missing something here? x.x

Zero is just the value assigned to the standard mana level on the scale. So 0 background count is > 0 available mana. (-1 doesn't mean there is negative mana.)

[Jaid]

It's a question of size required, which adds weight, which means more fuel required and a higher ship construction cost. For a ship that just does Earth to Mars round trips - maybe. Plants take time to produce food, and IIRC, a good yardstick is 1 acre of land per person per year to grow food. If you're transporting 100 people, do you really want to have to build a ship that has 100 acres of space inside? Investing in a permanent magic item enchanted with the Hibernate spell, or using an endless electricity item to power 2070's biostasis chambers both seem like way better ideas to me. A nice compact ship, with the passengers as cargo and the piloting computer doing the driving.

EDIT:

On the other hand, if I were building a Space Habitat, absolutely, bring in and grow as many plants as possible. Everywhere you can cram in another plant, do it. Not just for the physical benefits you've pointed out, but they also help provide as much of a manasphere as possible for the place.

This begs the question - just how much vegetation is required to equal Earth's manasphere? How much to compensate from -12 to 0? The Ares Eden space station is described as having an "anemic" manasphere, so what if we built one ten times that size? A hundred times bigger? A thousand times bigger? This discussion does raise some other interesting questions as well.

if you're just going to mars, you don't need magical artifacts that work at a tiny fraction of their potential, especially since those artifacts could potentially kill off your high rating initiates in the process of making them. just use solar panels or nuclear reactors, and have your magicians do something more profitable.

[JanessaVR]

If you're just going to Mars, you don't need magical artifacts that work at a tiny fraction of their potential, especially since those artifacts could potentially kill off your high rating initiates in the process of making them. Just use solar panels or nuclear reactors, and have your magicians do something more profitable.

That depends on how much it costs to make the items – something we don’t have any real canon yardsticks for.

I posited setting this at something like 1,000,000¥ for an item that could supply power to a small town. I have no problem saying “And if you want this to function in a mana void, add a 0 to the cost.” Mantis suggested it be more like 100,000,000¥. Let’s work with both of those figures.

At 100,000,000¥, we approach the CEO of Space Ventures, and ask him “Would you like to spend 1,000,000¥ a year (per shuttle) for the next 100 years to have perpetual power on your Earth-to-Mars shuttles? It’s not technology, so it won’t become obsolete in 10 to 20 years. You can, in fact, use it forever, and just transfer it from shuttle to shuttle, as new models become available.” There’s no reason for him not to say yes. For comparison, go have a look at what it cost to build the U.S. Space Shuttle, which isn’t even capable of interplanetary flight – this is chump change by comparison.

At 10,000,000¥, when we approach the CEO of Space Ventures and ask him the same question, he promptly whips out his checkbook and asks if he can just write you a personal check; he’ll file an expense report for it later.

So, in the end, I think this is a rather profitable enterprise for magicians. The benefits of perpetual energy are just too much to ignore.

[JanessaVR]

To be fair, Ysrthie was also in a pact/horror marking with Aine, so she could well have been unwittingly providing the anchor to allow him across, albeit briefly.

Most of the time, the victims of the horrors were long gone before the next cycle came around so they didn't have that link to pop over early, but having an IE on tap probably served as the exception to the rule.
He couldn't come anytime, but when the mana was back on the rise, he had a head start on things.

I thought that as of the novel Scars (which I never finished reading - need to get back to that), that Aina managed to "remake her Pattern" and free herself of her magical ties to Ysrthgrathe. Of course, this does nothing to stop his obsession with her, but he shouldn't be able to use her as an anchor anymore. I might need to go re-read Worlds Without End as well. I kind of liked it in some respects, but just didn't like Ysrthgrathe managing to make it through to Earth this early in the cycle. Either the Horror "Big Boys" can't come through now or they can. And it breaks a lot of the established cosmology if they can, not even a century past the Awakening in the mana cycle.

[Sengir]

Just for argument's sake while it is true that some of the most powerful horrors seemed to be able to manifest into the world only at the height of the mana cycle that's not necessarily true for most of the horrors. What we know is that they only have access to Earth during a high mana phase because of the "distance" between the worlds. But given that they were ready to invade what I imagine is a rather mana-impoverished early Sixth World, I assume that would have survived that invasion. We know Ysrthgrathe could exist in the Shadowrun era.

"Remember, they need a certain environment to be summoned, but they do not need it to endure."

However, we also know that the Horrors left towards the end of the Scourge, although the mana levels were still far higher than in the 2070s. My theory would be that
a) Horrors can only leave our world during the same period in which they can also enter it
b) While they can subside on low mana levels, they cannot survive the down cycles (or at least it must be really unpleasant)

Therefore, the Horrors don't leave at the end of the Scourge period because the mana level would be too low for them to survive. They leave because otherwise they would be trapped in a world careening towards the down cycle, which is the point they could indeed not survive. And of course, that means voids are really bad for them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(BTW: What happens to background count 0 when the mana level rises is a good question.)

I'd say it stays at zero, because BGC only is the deviation from the norm. But what happens to voids, do they stay "manaless"?

[JanessaVR]

"Remember, they need a certain environment to be summoned, but they do not need it to endure."

However, we also know that the Horrors left towards the end of the Scourge, although the mana levels were still far higher than in the 2070s. My theory would be that
a) Horrors can only leave our world during the same period in which they can also enter it
b) While they can subside on low mana levels, they cannot survive the down cycles (or at least it must be really unpleasant)

Therefore, the Horrors don't leave at the end of the Scourge period because the mana level would be too low for them to survive. They leave because otherwise they would be trapped in a world careening towards the down cycle, which is the point they could indeed not survive. And of course, that means voids are really bad for them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'd say it stays at zero, because BGC only is the deviation from the norm. But what happens to voids, do they stay "manaless"?

I'm still going to go with only the "little guys" of the Horrors being able to make it through this early in the cycle. As the mana level rises, progressively bigger, nastier Horrors can come out to play. Then as it falls, the bigger, nastier ones are forced home first, with progressively less dangerous ones able to remain as the mana levels continue to fall. This is clean and simple, and if it contradicts the occasional novel, well, too bad for them.

[Sendaz]

I thought that as of the novel Scars (which I never finished reading - need to get back to that), that Aina managed to "remake her Pattern" and free herself of her magical ties to Ysrthgrathe. Of course, this does nothing to stop his obsession with her, but he shouldn't be able to use her as an anchor anymore. I might need to go re-read Worlds Without End as well. I kind of liked it in some respects, but just didn't like Ysrthgrathe managing to make it through to Earth this early in the cycle. Either the Horror "Big Boys" can't come through now or they can. And it breaks a lot of the established cosmology if they can, not even a century past the Awakening in the mana cycle.

The trouble with Horror Marking is it's more insidious than most realize.

But then the whole Horror Marking was a bit OP at times and caused more than one argument around the tables, but that's another debate.

In any case I suspect she wasn't as freed as she thought back then, though it did appear at the time she had broken the Mark.

However given Ysrthie's reappearance ahead of the Horror Pack, this does raise the question was the link really broken or not?

Likewise her victory in WwoE is sort of suspect.

I know that one day the
Enemy will come again, but now that Ysrthgrathe is
gone, I feel ... safer.

<snip>
Aina,
In light of our last conversation, I thought these might be of interest to you. By the way, I've
been keeping track of these things, and on the night you told me about, there was a spike at Crater
Lake.
Dunkelzahn

<snip>

I realized now that Ysrthgrathe had sacrificed
himself. His defeat was too easy. He'd played me. Played my emotions, manipulated me all along
until I couldn't resist. It was his revenge. For he knew
that nothing would bring me greater pain than to live with the knowledge that I'd had the means to
stop them, and had let anger and fear and foolishness rule
me instead.

Yes, she got tricked into basically causing a mana spike, causing the coming Horror that little bit closer.
It happens to the best of us.

However I question her thinking that Ysrthie is really gone, because while she did lay the holy smackdown on him, it was done on this plane.
Basic Spiritbusting 101 reminds us that to permanently put the whammie on a visitor from beyond, you have to go to their metaplane to finish the job.
All she broke was his projected form to here, so if she hadn't sacrificed herself later on in D.C. she might have lived long enough to see her former lover's return to tear open that wound yet again and dump salt in it.

I'm still going to go with only the "little guys" of the Horrors being able to make it through this early in the cycle. As the mana level rises, progressively bigger, nastier Horrors can come out to play. Then as it falls, the bigger, nastier ones are forced home first, with progressively less dangerous ones able to remain as the mana levels continue to fall. This is clean and simple, and if it contradicts the occasional novel, well, too bad for them.

Which does make sense. And who said Ysrthie was a big boy? Seemed more a very enterprising Horror, but not a world shaking sort. He just got the spotlight because he was siphoning off an IE.

[JanessaVR]

The trouble with Horror Marking is it's more insidious than most realize.

But it also only lasts a year and a day. During that time, the Horror can renew the Mark whenever it wants. But that also means it would certainly have "expired" during the downcycle.

And who said Ysrthie was a big boy? Seemed more a very enterprising Horror, but not a world shaking sort. He just got the spotlight because he was siphoning off an IE.

That's an interesting idea. I always just assumed that, given that's he's named and all, and not another nameless mook Horror, but that idea would reconcile his appearance with my interpretation of the mana cycle and Horrors.

[JanessaVR]

However I question her thinking that Ysrthie is really gone, because while she did lay the holy smackdown on him, it was done on this plane.
Basic Spiritbusting 101 reminds us that to permanently put the whammie on a visitor from beyond, you have to go to their metaplane to finish the job.
All she broke was his projected form to here, so if she hadn't sacrificed herself later on in D.C. she might have lived long enough to see her former lover's return to tear open that wound yet again and dump salt in it.

I wonder, has anyone ever found the Horrors' home metaplane? Has anyone ever visited it and lived to tell the tale? Talk about an expedition into the bowels of Hell...

[Sendaz]

But it also only lasts a year and a day. During that time, the Horror can renew the Mark whenever it wants. But that also means it would certainly have "expired" during the downcycle.

Assuming he has to be on the same plane to 'renew' it. Given his tight bonding to his victims, this may or may not have been the case.
The Horror Marking powers of many of the Horrors varied, with some being able to do more or less with them.
But this is more down to artistic license than hard ruling, so take any of it in the spirit it was meant.

That's an interesting idea. I always just assumed that, given that's he's named and all, and not another nameless mook Horror, but that idea would reconcile his appearance with my interpretation of the mana cycle and Horrors.

He didn't destroy armies with a flick of his wrist or raze whole kingdoms to the ground, he was very personal sort of demon, riding his chosen til they broke.
So yeah, compared to some of the big boys, he was sort of small fry, granted a very engaging one and ready to take advantage of a situation.
But I doubt he would have faced off with any of the real big boys unless really pressed into a corner or to step in just long enough to rescue his Marked target by whisking them away to safety (he insists only HE gets to off them )
The Earthdawn gamebooks talked about how he generally tended to focus on small groups or individuals and usually skipped over the short lived orcs and humans, preferring longer living elves and such because he could make the suffering last longer.
He hit the jackpot when he latched onto Aine, now he had a potentially endless feast of misery given she was an IE.

I wonder, has anyone ever found the Horrors' home metaplane? Has anyone ever visited it and lived to tell the tale? Talk about an expedition into the bowels of Hell...

In ED, explorers had found other metaplanes of earth like worlds that had already been ravished by the Horror's, but don't think anyone has gone that far out to find some of their homeplanes, or lived to come back if they did.

Plus different sorts may come from different metaplanes, so finding the right one would indeed be a daunting task.

Maybe if you ever get that Worldship with the endless power supply going, one could also figure out a way to make it tear a hole between the planes to go planediving for a little visit with some high energy weapons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[lokii]

Therefore, the Horrors don't leave at the end of the Scourge period because the mana level would be too low for them to survive. They leave because otherwise they would be trapped in a world careening towards the down cycle, which is the point they could indeed not survive. And of course, that means voids are really bad for them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Well, a nice enough theory.

I'd say it stays at zero, because BGC only is the deviation from the norm. But what happens to voids, do they stay "manaless"?

Sure if the reason for their existence remains the same. Like being huge, lifeless and filled with mostly nothing in the case of space. But as the mana level increases the negative scale would actually be lengthened with zero moving up as it represents ever higher ambient mana. (That was what I meant with what happens to zero, of course.) So if a mana void stays at the same amount of mana its background count should probably decrease as the world mana level rises.


As for Ysrthgrathe. I think his interest in feeding of carefully selected victims is something of an acquired taste, so he is very old. But I would also think he is less about raw power. A comparison of the stats in Horrors between Ysrthgrathe and other relatively powerful horrors might give an answer.

[Sendaz]

A comparison of the stats in Horrors between Ysrthgrathe and other relatively powerful horrors might give an answer.

Hard to compare some of them as there is a variety of forms, ranging from some that only act from the astral to engine of destruction that eat dragons like popcorn.
Some stats to compare below, remember in Earthdawn a 8-12 is around average ability in a stat for a man sized humanoid.


Ysrthgrathe:
Not the most powerful, but what he does do he does well.
DEx: 13 STR: 15 TOU: 13
PER: 20 WIL: 20 CHA: 18
Initiative: 15 Physical Defense: 17
Actions: 4 Spell Defense: 25
Attack (4): 17 Social Defense: 23
Damage: Physical Armor: 8
Unarmed (3): 18 Mystic Armor: 15
Death: 129 Recovery Tests: 6
unconsciousness: 112 Knockdown: 15
Wound Threshold: 19 Movement: 6 Legend Award: Eleventh Circle (Group) Karma Points: 30
Karma Step: 18
Powers: Corrupt Karma (4): 24, Create Shadow (4),
Cursed Luck (4): 24, Displace (4): 24, Disrupt Magic (4): 24,
Durability (7), Horror Mark (4): 24, Karma Tap (4): 24,
Thought Worm (7): 27, Spellcasting (4): 24, Thread Weaving [All] (4): 24
Spells: All Disciplines (Tenth Circle)


Bone Crown the Usurper
This guy likes to take over whole towns, corrupting those at the top and influencing the rest.
But he is no slouch in a fight if the opposition gets uppity.

DEx: 18 STR: 20 TOu: 20
PER: 18 WIL: 20 CHa: 22
Initiative: 15 Physical Defense: 23
Actions: 4 Spell Defense: 23
Attack (4): 22 Social Defense: 28
Damage: Physical Armor: 7
Dagger (23): 43 Mystic Armor: 15
Death: 211 Recovery Tests: 10
unconsciousness: 184 Knockdown: 20
Wound Threshold: 25 Movement: 6
Legend Award: Fourteenth Circle (Group)
Karma Points: 20 Karma Step: See text
Powers: Aura of Awe (4): 26, Corrupt Karma (4): 24,
Create Shadow (5), Cursed Luck (4): 24, Durability (12),
Spellcasting (7): 25, Thread Weaving [Illusionism] (7): 25
Spells: Illusionism (Seventh Circle)
Equipment: Enchanted dagger (Forged +1; see text), Chain mail
Loot: None



Verjigorm
This one hunts dragons, big and small,.... successfully.
Make of that what you will...
DEx: 26 STR: 33 TOu: 29
PER: 28 WIL: 40 CHa: 23
Initiative: 30 Physical Defense: 32
Actions: 6 Spell Defense: 40
Attack (12): 38 Social Defense: 30
Damage: Physical Armor: 40
Claws (7): 40 Mystic Armor: 40
Death: 400 Recovery Tests: 14
unconsciousness: 364 Knockdown: 34
Wound Threshold: 32 Movement: 12 Legend Award: Fifteenth Circle × 5 (Group) Karma Points: 50
Karma Step: 20
Powers: Animate Dead (6): 46, Corrupt Karma (6): 46,
Cursed Luck (6): 46, Damage Shift (6): 46, Displace (6): 34,
Durability (15), Forge Horror Construct (6): 34,
Horror Mark (6): 34, Horror Thread (6): 34,
Spellcasting (12): 40, Thread Weaving [Wizardry] (12): 40,
Thought Worm (6): 46, Unnatural Life (6): 46
Spells: Wizardry (Eighth Circle)
equipment, loot: None



Now compare these to MountainShadow , or you might know him as Big D in our day

DEx: 20 STR: 34 TOu: 29
PER: 28 WIL: 26 CHa: 23
Initiative: 25 Physical Defense: 24
Actions: 5 Spell Defense: 36
Attack ((IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) : 28 Social Defense: 29
Damage: Physical Armor: 38 Bite (7): 41; 4×Claws (5): 38 Mystic Armor: 31
Death: 265 Recovery Tests: 14
unconsciousness: 244 Knockdown: 35 Wound Threshold: 32 Movement: 7/14 * Legend Award: Fifteenth
Circle x 3 (Group)
Karma Points: 50 Karma Step: 18


* The second value is the dragon’s flying Movement Rate.
Powers (Knacks):
Armored Matrix T (7) Armored Scales (9)
Dispel Magic (5): 31 Disrupt Fate (5): 31
Dragon Breath (6): 32 (Friendly Fire) Dragonsight (7): 35 (Item History, True Sight)
Dragonspeech (11): 39 (Learn Language, Read Thoughts, Reweave Mind, Second Sight, Suggestion,
Thought Probe)
Durability (15) Enhanced Matrix T (7)
Enhanced Matrix T (7)
Fear (7): 31 (Paralyzing Gaze; see text)

Karma Cancel (6): 32 (Lend Karma)
Lair Sense (9): 37 (Absent Lair Sense, Identify Intruder, Lair Vision, Lair Mark)
Regeneration (5): 34
Spellcasting (12): 40 (Anchored Spell, Maintain Spell Threads) Spell Matrix T (7)
Spell Matrix T (7)
Spell Matrix T (7) Spell Matrix T (7)
Spell Matrix T (7) Spell Matrix T (7)
Summoning (11): 37 Suppress Magic (5): 31 Thread Weaving [All magician Disciplines] (12): 40
Venom (5): 31 Wingbeat (5): 25

Spells: All magician Disciplines (Seventh Circle)

[JanessaVR]

I don't read Earthdawn stats very well yet, but Verji seems a bit underpowered for someone who's supposed to be the greatest being of evil to ever have existed in the SR/ED campaign setting.

[Mantis]

Maybe if you ever get that Worldship with the endless power supply going, one could also figure out a way to make it tear a hole between the planes to go planediving for a little visit with some high energy weapons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Now this sounds like a worthy effort. Plus you won't be dealing with massive mana voids.

[JanessaVR]

Maybe if you ever get that Worldship with the endless power supply going, one could also figure out a way to make it tear a hole between the planes to go planediving for a little visit with some high energy weapons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I've semi-seriously suggested averting the next Scourge by preemptively nuking the Horrors. No, really, with actual nuclear weapons. If you can translate objects to astral space, and you can find the Horrors' home metaplane, then why not gift-wrap a few presents for them?

[ShadowDragon8685]

I've semi-seriously suggested averting the next Scourge by preemptively nuking the Horrors. No, really, with actual nuclear weapons. If you can translate objects to astral space, and you can find the Horrors' home metaplane, then why not gift-wrap a few presents for them?

Because magic fucks with nukes.
Use antimatter instead.

[JanessaVR]

Because magic fucks with nukes.
Use antimatter instead.

Yeah, I know. That would be yet another research project - making nuclear weapons reliably functional in a manasphere. I'm not sure where you'd get antimatter in weapons quantity; I don't recall reading about that anywhere in canon.

[lokii]

I have to say though that sounds like the kind of plan, where you feel really smart about yourself, until you realize it was a horror plot all along. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)