Being a tough but fair arbiter of consequences, When runs go pear shaped Options

[LurkerOutThere]

So to set the scene without going into too much detail.

Runners are hired to steal a truckload of hops from an agricultural distribution center. They are warned up front that the place has a combination of a security contract (4 fairly heavily armed ren a cops plus response force), an archaic matrix system (pre-wireless tech), and a deal of mutual assistance with a local go gang/biker club. The target is upstate new york, an area that's a little out there but certainly not a DMZ by any means.

The runners devise a plan to case the place by posing a potential agricorp looking to move some product through the distrobution center. THey set up with a meet with the owner and physically surveil the site in addition to the sneak and peek recon the night before.

The face and the physad go in with the rigger on site acting as their driver. The rest of the team (Combat Medic, Hacker, and Punchy Sam are conceiled nearby).

Midway through their false pretenses meet after the owner has kind of verbally confirmed the informnation the J already gave them (we have a security contract 24 hours and an agreement witht he local gang). THe team ops to just go from recon to extraction in one go. So under cover of broad daylight they punch out the owner, use thei riggers vehicle to splatter/level the guard house and sniper the guard in the overwastch position. Unfortunately for them one of the guards got to use his action and get a distress signal and a general description description of the situation (shots fired, hostile combat vehicle on site, Joe and Jill's biomonitors just went dead) before the hacker thought to set up the jammer. The remaining guards hole up and make themselves hard to kill and wait for help to come.

The team hotwires a tractor trailer to steal their primary objective. Rather then getting a second one going for bonus loot the hacker decides he wants to get his kill on and goes to try and deal with one the guards hold up in a part of the facility only to decide that maybe he should leave that to others after the guard made with the grenades.

The combat medic (one of the few team members other then the rigger with any decent pilot ground craft) pool takes off with their primary loot with the face riding shotgun.. THe rest of the team stays behind to loot the facilities weapons cache when they hear helicopters approaching. Que running gunfight with a couple of yellow jackets who are both driven off.

Meanwhile the runners in the loot truck end up going in the same direction the biker gang comes rolling in on. (i rolled randomly to decide this and the odds were not ever in their favor). The face killed one biker with a decent shotgun blast as he tried to climb aboard causing one of the others to go "fuck it" and toss a grenade rolling exceptionally well to get it into the passenger side window and into the cab. I gave them rolls to dodge (failed, the combat medic is under some decent wound penalties at this point) and let the face roll to try and scope the grenade out which was also failed. I think I might have also given the driver a check just to be absolutely merciful.

Rather then stay in the truck with a ticking grenade the Face and the Combat medic bail out at roughly 45 miles an hour. The face sticks the landing, the combat medic takes even more damage and is now barely staying concious thanks to a combination of her cyberware and her high physical stats. At that point the remaining 5 bikers roll up and start arguing about twhat to do with them.


At that point we broke session.

Now I have a dilema.

I mean the most straight forward situation is the runners int he riggers vehicle roll up and delete the gangers and maybe get into a running gun battle with the follow on security forces as they try and get the truck fixed enough to drive or steal another. - THis seems a little too nice and easy.

Another option is the gang takes the two hostage (presuming they go along relatively pliantly, one is shot to hell, the other has decent polls but not 5 on one win a gunfight levels of soak and armor considering she was playing the role of a corporate negotiator and didn't bring her heavy kit. The team and the gang/security forces can work out a hostage exchange as the other part of the team still has the owner in their custody. This makes it considerably harder for the runners to accomplish their primary mission but seems kind of like the most "realistic" outcome.

Is there anything I'm missing or should also consider. I mean this doesn't even take into consideration some of the piss poor decisions the runners made going from recon to hot run in one go. The infiltrators wern't disguised in any way. and they didn't wipe the cameras. Nor did they take any precaution if the owner has any type of comlink on him. I'm trying to be careful noit to spring too much int he wasy of "gotchas" on them but a part of me really wants to punish what was otherwise a carefully executed exercise.

[Tecumseh]

This answer depends on the type of game you want (as GM) and what the players want. Hopefully you're all on the same page.

This is an opportunity to inform the players that actions have consequences. Generally speaking, this will produce some short-term discomfort but will pay dividends in long-term gameplay.

If this were just a question of bad dice - a long sequence of below-average rolls - then providing the nice, easy way out might be warranted.

Given that this situation is the product of sub-optimal decision-making - "under cover of broad daylight" is both wonderfully descriptive and utterly damning - they players can have absolutely no grounds for complaint that things did not go as planned. (Especially since it sounds like there was no plan.) Unless, of course, they want a consequence-free game as an escape fantasy, which is a conversation that the group would need to have.

Ultimately, my experience is that most players appreciate boundaries and realistic consequences. If that means failing a job, then that's fairly minor compared to some of the alternatives, like being splattered on the side of the road by vengeful gangers. Failing a job is a good clear sign that you're not going to be a Santa Claus GM but nor are you going to execute players for a lapse in judgement. (At least, you won't the first time.)

I would take it a step further. The hostage exchange occurs, but then the owner - less than amused by the circumstances - seeks retribution. Given that the infiltrators were not disguised and that camera feeds were not wiped, it shouldn't be too difficult to track the PCs down. Send the PCs running. Make them spend some time covering their tracks, laying low in safe houses, and maybe getting out of the country for a few weeks while the heat dies down. This is a good opportunity for runs in new locations, maybe junior stuff (given their lack of reputation in a new market) that can reintroduce good, fundamental shadowrunning tactics. They'll come back to town wiser and less-inclined to act on spur-of-the-moment whims.

[tisoz]

It sounds like a good time to let the Face shine and talk the 5 bikers out of killing them.

[LurkerOutThere]

Eh, i've kind of already given them a brief on what's expected of them so hopefully that's already covered, the group is about half made up with people who have palyed in prior games and half folks from the internet.

The broad daylight thing kind of caught me off guard as they weren't even under any particular time crunch and seemed kind of pointless other then a matter of impatience. It would have worked too if they'd managed to get all the guards in one go and make sure a jammer was up the whole time.

I don't think the face is going to talk the gangers out of doing anything, partly because of the situation. The face just killed one of their brothers, partly bewcause the face's palyer isn't really suited to playing a face (they were kind of roped/pushed into by their friend, and partly because that would create a pass or die check. Fortunately the fact that the rest of the team has a hostage (the only positive to the whole br4oad daylight method) doews nicely slant things in their favor.

[Kyrel]

Oh man...If you want realistic, then the Face and Combat Medic get to roll new characters, and the rest of the team get to deal with the likely still incoming HTR team(s) and/or the 5 bikers. And if they manage to get away, they probably won't have cleaned up properly after themselves, making it entirely possible for the company to track them down. And if they've left behind enough of a mess, then it's quite likely that the company WILL come after them. And the cops, if they killed any of them. And to cap it off, they're likely to take a hit on their reputation as runners as well, because A) they screwed up, B) made a big mess, and C) most likely failed to complete the primary objective of the run.

If we're looking for loopholes that will allow the PC's to survive, then the Face and Combat Medic might not be killed outright, because that's not the arrangement they have with the company. Instead they might "just" take possession of the stolen goods and keep the two PC's prisoners until they can be picked up by the company, who'll then hand them over to the cops (or just deal with them themselves, if they have can make their own laws on their turf).

If I was going to be "nice" to the PC's here, then I'd have the bikers take the two PC's back to the Company, along with the truck, in order to hand them over the the company. All the while I would let the other PC's deal with a groundbased HTR team, and the theoretical chance that they'll remember to find a way to hack the system and remove the traces of themselves. If I was feeling real generous, then I'd either not let the bikers and the loot truck get back to the compound, before the battle with the HTR team was over, or I might just let random chance decide when they'd show up.
If the other three PC's are bugging out before an HTR team can arrive, they might run into the bikers on the road, and then they might be able to deal with them there, rescue their friends and take possession of the loot truck again.
In this scenario, if the players are REAL clever and lucky, they'll still have a chance of getting away and completing the run. But...They'll have one hell of a time trying to pull it off. And regardless, I'd let them take a hit on their reputation, for making a mess of things like that.

If the players don't deal with the matrix evidence, then they'll leave enough evidence to track them down. And given the amount of carnage they've caused, the company WILL come after them, along with the cops. I'd slap them with a "Wanted" quality, and have them be hunted by the cops and the company for a while, along with the occasional bounty hunters thereafter.


/Kyrel

[Tecumseh]

Oh, there is lots of wiggle room for the GM here. You might think that the bikers revenging themselves on the face and the combat medic is the most realistic outcome, but maybe the face geeked a much-hated leader, or created a leadership vacuum that the biker lieutenant can now use to ascend the ranks. The lieutenant, delighted with this turn of events, is feeling magnanimous and is willing to spare the face and medic in order to turn them into bargaining chips that will further solidify his (or her) standing in the gang and/or business relationship with the owner.

Personally, I would use this as an opportunity to show the runners than not every situation can be resolved with violence. Overwhelmn them to the point where they understand that they can't shoot their way out of this one. Make them bargain, make them bargain/plead/beg, make them sweat. Relieve them of some toys and leave them battered, but leave them alive to reconsider the error of their ways. Every table is different, but that's what I would do at mine.

[psychophipps]

I would have the bikers shoot the Face in the face and then use the medic as a good 'Atta boy!' with the distribution center. First, bikers aren't exactly big on mercy and second, you go blowing away one of their boys and word gets out that they let the guy who did it go? That sound is your gang's street cred getting flushed down the toilet. The bikers get to show they're worth paying, maybe a bonus for some hookers and blow, and the security corp QRF (Quick Reaction Force) rolls in, making things harder.

Now the players have the option of having another immediate go at it when the QRF is there, bailing and trying later when things get back to normal and the new PC crew shows up, reporting that they're goofs to the Johnson, and/or trying to negotiate with the security guys for their medic back.

Consequences taught for trying to do wing it, reinforcement that your game has consequences for character actions, a reminder that Shadowrun isn't all rainbow unicorn farts and elves frolicking through the happy meadow, and hopefully a few players a bit wiser for the next run...

[binarywraith]

Honestly, as a GM? Let it fly. They chose to do this in the stupidest and most dungeon-crawler method possible, and that has consequences.

Make hay, run the rest of the scene out. Fade to black on the ending, and let people who went down either roll new characters or come up with a way they lived (jail, left for dead and sporting new cyber fixes), and jump the timeline a few months/years down the road with some nifty new Flaws and having learned.

[Glyph]

I agree. If a few mistakes and bad luck conspire against the characters and Edge isn't enough to salvage the situation, well, time to roll up new characters. Don't try to "fix" their playing style with a lot of tedious "consequences" to wade through, especially since they already seem a tad bit impatient with the planning out to action ratio.

These are not professional criminals, they are people unwinding from their jobs playing professional criminals - or rather, romanticized, cinematic professional criminals in a wild setting where D&D and cyberpunk have been combined in a blender. By all means, let them know if they are not grokking some of the particulars of how your world works. I would avoid doing it in any kind of "teaching them a lesson" kind of way, though.

[Iduno]

If you want to avoid killing characters (or players):

Let the face (probably with prompting from you before the game, if they aren't normally the face type) bargain with the bikers, possibly with the other PCs showing up as a bargaining chip. The bikers probably won't let them get away free after killing one of their members unless the face is extra clever/good at rolling. The prospect of a fight from the other PCs, a prisoner trade, and either a bribe or owing the gangers one (or whatever agreement they come to) should let the players live. If you're going to fight, make sure you can win.

Then, after getting out, the PCs get to deal with the fallout from going loud without covering their tracks. Leaving evidence means they get to spend time hiding (while at least one probably needs medical attention, and possibly having to do a job to make up for killing one of the gangers) and maybe leaving town after the run.

Needing to learn 2 lessons means it may cost them more than they made, but they'll live.

[LurkerOutThere]

Interesting discussions. I didn't realize would be going so long after the fact.

Due to real life problems and commitments we havn't been able to meet for game. Ideally we will be reconvening this Sunday.

As to some of the points raised:

I have zero issue killing or incarcerating PC's. For a starting shadowrunner crew incarceration on a murder rap is practically the same thing as character death. What I typically have as a rule of thumb is giving the PC's a chance to "go down swinging."

The biker gang isn't inclined to grant any clemency. Fortunately for the runners the biker gang answers very directly to an NPC i'd plan on introducing later that I'm using this opportunity to introduce now. This NPC, a high powered fixer and mage has a personal and professional obligation to ensure the safety of the business owner the rest of the team kidnapped. Further he has the power necessary to convince both the bikers and security firm (at least in an off the record fashion) to let him broker a hostage trade. He arranged a vid call with the Face and the Combat Medic and gave them his assurances that provided they did not cause trouble he would make a good faith offer of a straight trade for the team's hostage. He very explicitly isn't promising more then a running head start once the exchange is made but his concern for the business owner's safety overrides and need for vengeance he might feel. To him this is all business.

The rest of the team is safe for the moment. They could decide to just cut their losses and leave the Face and Combat Medic to hang. It would be the smart thing to do and they could walk with little further repercusion. I doubt they will do this but hey I always give people and option for the easy way. Of course barring some really desperate creative thinking this would mean new characters for those two PC's. The gang might claim the face and the Combat Medic would probably go down for the quadruple murder and other misc. crimes back at the distribution center.

The combat medic and the face do have a number of options if they choose to take them. They might try and loosen their bonds in transport, they might just do something completely off the wall.

The way I figure things will go the Fixer calls the remander on the team on the face or the combat medic's comm code. He arranges for proof of life and lays out his terms. He isn't going to negotiate and while this is the most straight forward path he sees to getting the hostage back he has other options there too. If the team does something uncouth like threatening to just kill the hostage he will point out that then he will not only give the face to the biker gang and let the combat medic hang for the murder charge he will be obligated to do everything in his power to bring the runners to justice. If they deal with him as a business man though they can at least have a chance to run away very quickly.

Right now I'm leaning to baring shenanigans by the runners the Fixer will deal in good faith and give the team a brief head start against both the security and the bikers. When/IF the runners get away they can try and go get their primary objective again but it's now been moved to a much more secure state police evidence lockup facility.

IF they go back to their fixer in defeat he will be non-plussed especially since he'll know why they fucked up. He's not a mustache twirling socipath though, the team just owes him a run at reduced spec to make up for the damage to his rep that he just took. And he has one in mind and helpfully it's out of town but it ain''t gonna be easy.