Official Errata, not yet, but maybe Options

[Sengir]

So I'm semi-offline for a week and missed nothing short of a miracle: CGL want to establish an errata process, with some Goodman guy in charge. Consider me cautiously optimistic, at least as long as Patrick doesn't give "Christmas" as an ETA (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Stahlseele]

So I'm semi-offline for a week and missed nothing short of a miracle: CGL want to establish an errata process, with some Goodman guy in charge. Consider me cautiously optimistic, at least as long as Patrick doesn't give "Christmas" as an ETA (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

if they are really doing errata the way they are doing battletech, i seriously hope they learn from the mistakes made there . . *coughcough*accidentalglassingofgreydeathlegion*coughcough*

[Mantis]

Well Patrick seems to always follow through on doing what he says so I'm hopeful. I hope they also take into consideration not just errata in a book but also how that errata will effect other books.

[KCKitsune]

And maybe they can fix some of the wireless garbage from 5th edition.

[Medicineman]

So I'm semi-offline for a week and missed nothing short of a miracle: CGL want to establish an errata process, with some Goodman guy in charge. Consider me cautiously optimistic, at least as long as Patrick doesn't give "Christmas" as an ETA (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

WHICH Christmas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
same here (even though i'm in a ....luckier situation here in Germany)

with a German Dance
Medicineman

[tisoz]

WHICH Christmas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
same here (even though i'm in a ....luckier situation here in Germany)

with a German Dance
Medicineman

LOL

No errata explains it! During a recent discussion where Karma cost to quicken a spell arose, I looked for 5th Ed errata and didn't find any.

with a spinning my wheels dance
tisoz

[Sengir]

*coughcough*accidentalglassingofgreydeathlegion*coughcough*

Huh? How do you nuke something that hasn't been around since [checks book] 2002?

I'd be more worried about people glassing each other once the "provisionally official" errata gets put up for discussion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Before i got banned on the CBT board, i read a thread where one of the dev people explained it like this:
OK, so Planet 1 (15 minutes) glassed, planet 2 (15 minutes) glassed and so on for several planets, so aout 3 hours or so.
Next came units. First house units, then mercenaries, so about another 2 hours later:
"Now, where were the grey death legion?"
*They were on Planet 2!*
"Why does that planet name ring a bell for me right now?"
silence. shuffling of papers.
*oh. err . .*

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

LOL

No errata explains it! During a recent discussion where Karma cost to quicken a spell arose, I looked for 5th Ed errata and didn't find any.

with a spinning my wheels dance
tisoz

Quickening a Spell is pretty straightforward... Costs 1 Karma to Quicken, more may be spent, but is not required. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[tisoz]

Quickening a Spell is pretty straightforward... Costs 1 Karma to Quicken, more may be spent, but is not required. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Which is different than every previous edition and seems like a mistake as it wasn't broken in prior editions. Reducing it seems like it would unbalance things. Especially since it sounds like it is resisted by the full Force of the spell, not the karma spent to quicken it - like in all previous editions.

I guess wait until the errata comes out and see if it gets addressed. It matters little to me as I don't care too much about 5th . I commented on the original post because it seemed too good to be true to me, like someone had missed an obvious rule. But I believe you have it RAW.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Which is different than every previous edition and seems like a mistake as it wasn't broken in prior editions. Reducing it seems like it would unbalance things. Especially since it sounds like it is resisted by the full Force of the spell, not the karma spent to quicken it - like in all previous editions.

I guess wait until the errata comes out and see if it gets addressed. It matters little to me as I don't care too much about 5th . I commented on the original post because it seemed too good to be true to me, like someone had missed an obvious rule. But I believe you have it RAW.

My guess is that the Development team wanted to see it more in use. In my experience, Few took it because it was just not worth it most of the time. Too high a cost with too little benefit compared to the drawbacks.
It rolls Force + Mage's Magic Attribute + Karma Spent to Quicken.

It is pretty nice, but comes with a LOT of baggage too... Our Mage just cannot hide AT ALL with is quickened Spells (The biggest drawback of them all), as he does not have Extended Masking (So he cannot hide them) and even if he did, neither his Initiate Grades nor Magic Attribute is high enough to hide them. He is a Beacon of Power. Believe me when I say that it is more of a problem with him around (assuming we intend to be stealthy). When it gets crazy though, having him around is quite nice. There is something to be said about pure power, after all...

[binarywraith]

SR5 came out 3 years ago last week (11 July 2013).


We're well past the point of bothering with errata. Given the past timing, they should already be starting on SR6 if they want any chance of shoveling out a new unedited pile of text by the 30th anniversary.

[Glyph]

SR5 currently has some glaring omissions, inconsistencies, and ambiguously-worded areas that need to be cleared up. I think if they tried to put out a new edition when the current edition is in such an incomplete state, they would lose even more customers than the SR4 to SR5 switch caused.

Errata? Shadowrun has been neglected for so long that I will believe it when I see it.

[Trillinon]

I'll give Patrick Goodman and his team the benefit of the doubt. It seems that they plan to pick up the ball that others have dropped. I certainly don't want to discourage them though pessimism.

As for a sixth edition? That would be a terrible idea that would only further fracture the fanbase. That said, I would welcome a SR4A-style revamp of the core rulebook when all this errata work is done. It would do things such as:

• Take the time to make sure all of the rules are in the right place.
• Edit the writing to be more concise.
• Master Index
• Limit the fiction to the intro story and one-page stories within each chapter. (I love the fiction, but it makes the rulebook harder to use).
• Increase page density for easier scanning (reduce font size, smaller headings)
• Major sections of a chapter always start at the top of a new page
• Less red (Hard to say why, but the red titles tend to disappear when scanning)

The SR5 books are very attractive, but it feels like they're optimized for reading, not referencing.

[Sengir]

I'll give Patrick Goodman and his team the benefit of the doubt. It seems that they plan to pick up the ball that others have dropped. I certainly don't want to discourage them though pessimism.

As for a sixth edition? That would be a terrible idea that would only further fracture the fanbase. That said, I would welcome a SR4A-style revamp of the core rulebook when all this errata work is done.

Well, the 4A edition was a great success, so it would make sense for CGL to release something similar.

[Glyph]

It would make it even more Magicrun, though. The street samurai archetype players will be all "Hey, what happened to this guy? It's like he lost over 200,000 Nuyen' worth of stuff!" And the combat mage archetype players will be "Whoa, what happened? All of a sudden, my Edge is, like, seven! Sweet!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[binarywraith]

I'll give Patrick Goodman and his team the benefit of the doubt. It seems that they plan to pick up the ball that others have dropped. I certainly don't want to discourage them though pessimism.

As for a sixth edition? That would be a terrible idea that would only further fracture the fanbase. That said, I would welcome a SR4A-style revamp of the core rulebook when all this errata work is done. It would do things such as:

• Take the time to make sure all of the rules are in the right place.
• Edit the writing to be more concise.
• Master Index
• Limit the fiction to the intro story and one-page stories within each chapter. (I love the fiction, but it makes the rulebook harder to use).
• Increase page density for easier scanning (reduce font size, smaller headings)
• Major sections of a chapter always start at the top of a new page
• Less red (Hard to say why, but the red titles tend to disappear when scanning)

The SR5 books are very attractive, but it feels like they're optimized for reading, not referencing.

Half the issue with SR5 as a reference is the lack of a good index due to failure to properly index page numbers, and the inability of the writers to separate fluff and hard rules mechanic statements.

[binarywraith]

You know, I had a think about this, and came up with a question.

Are Goodman et al getting paid to do this?

Because if not, wow. I cannot help but be impressed by the sheer balls of Catalyst in taking a fan's offer to write official errata due to their terrible editing at face value rather than being ashamed that their product needed it.

Edit : You know what, I'll just ask the man.

[Sengir]

Are Goodman et al getting paid to do this?

The difference between not getting paid and what RPG freelancers are usually paid isn't that significant (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Blade]

Which is a shame when products are bringing decent revenues to the companies (or at least enough to renovate homes).

[Medicineman]

The difference between not getting paid and what RPG freelancers are usually paid isn't that significant (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

but it would have a symbolic Meaning at least (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

with a symbolic Dance
Medicineman

[binarywraith]

The difference between not getting paid and what RPG freelancers are usually paid isn't that significant (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Oh, too true. It's just a question of the company's attitude towards the product, really.

[Patrick Goodman]

Consider me cautiously optimistic, at least as long as Patrick doesn't give "Christmas" as an ETA (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Current plan is to get the band together after GenCon (so sometime in the middle of August) and start flailing about. I hope to start having bits and pieces out before the end of August, but that's going to depend on how the debates go.

if they are really doing errata the way they are doing battletech, i seriously hope they learn from the mistakes made there . .

Forewarned is forearmed.

And maybe they can fix some of the wireless garbage from 5th edition.

Define "fix" and "garbage" in this context. It may or may not be out of the scope of my mandate.

Errata? Shadowrun has been neglected for so long that I will believe it when I see it.

Fair enough. I don't blame you.

... I would welcome a SR4A-style revamp of the core rulebook when all this errata work is done.

This, actually, wouldn't hurt my feelings. I'd love to see a 30th Anniversary book like that.

It would do things such as:

• Take the time to make sure all of the rules are in the right place.
• Edit the writing to be more concise.

I don't see a lot of this, however. There wasn't that much editing and revising done for SR4A, as I recall, though it's been long enough ago that I could definitely be misremembering. Wouldn't be the first time.

Adding things to sidebars, referencing other books, though...that would rock on toast.

• Master Index

That is one of my fondest dreams. Might not be in my purviews, but it's definitely something I'm pushing for.

• Limit the fiction to the intro story and one-page stories within each chapter. (I love the fiction, but it makes the rulebook harder to use).

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I want lots of fiction to set the tone. Besides, if we did this, we'd lose "Girls With Guns," the best piece of intro fic in the whole of the SR5 CRB.

• Increase page density for easier scanning (reduce font size, smaller headings)
• Major sections of a chapter always start at the top of a new page
• Less red (Hard to say why, but the red titles tend to disappear when scanning)

The SR5 books are very attractive, but it feels like they're optimized for reading, not referencing.

All layout issues, all well beyond my influence. I wish you the best.

It would make it even more Magicrun, though. The street samurai archetype players will be all "Hey, what happened to this guy? It's like he lost over 200,000 Nuyen' worth of stuff!" And the combat mage archetype players will be "Whoa, what happened? All of a sudden, my Edge is, like, seven! Sweet!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I must have missed something. How would this be more Magicrun?

[Trillinon]

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I want lots of fiction to set the tone. Besides, if we did this, we'd lose "Girls With Guns," the best piece of intro fic in the whole of the SR5 CRB.

It's okay to disagree. I agreed with you up until I had to use the 5E core rulebook regularly. In previous books, fiction was more contained, and more importantly, part of the chapter it preceded. Currently, the fiction competes with the chapters in the table of contents, making the top level headings more difficult to scan. The different layout for the fiction means that flipping through the book by looking at the page numbers and titles in the lower right gets interrupted. As I said, I love the fiction, but the current format and scope gets in the way too much. A lot of this is layout, but even with content I think there's a better balance to be found.

Besides, if this were an SR4A style revamp, it would get all new fiction anyway, and even a new layout.

Anyway, this is all just daydreaming. I'm glad you're taking on the Errata Job.

[binarywraith]

Define "fix" and "garbage" in this context. It may or may not be out of the scope of my mandate.

Not to put words in his mouth, but I believe this is referring to the largish number of wireless 'bonuses' which were written without real communication as to the intent of the bonuses from the editor to the writer, and thus don't make much sense in the game world's context.

One of the things I would absolutely love to see is more clarification on the places where hard rules information is mixed in with fluff such that it becomes hard to determine rules effects. The gear chapter is especially bad about it in places, as well as the rules for exlosives (which are presently spread across three chapters and not well cross-referenced).