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> Touch attack spells
Slide885
post Aug 17 2016, 03:00 AM
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So when some one cast a touch attack spell, say Punch, the book says they have to make an unarmed touch attack against the opponent (+2 dice for touching). Is this unarmed attack considered part of complex action of casting the spell?

What if I have a cheeky player who says "I want to touch him by punching his face or tackling him?"
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Tecumseh
post Aug 17 2016, 04:07 AM
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Some of the original developers have clarified that, yes, the touch-only attack is included in the Spellcasting Complex Action. Thus you don't need to make a separate Unarmed Attack roll, contrary to what the book implies. You just roll the Spellcasting dice pool to determine whether or not you connect.

While this is more fair to the caster - since many have low values Agility and Unarmed Attack - a Direct touch-only spell does negate the dodge pool of the defender. If it helps, you could think of Direct touch spells as spells with a 1-meter range. The mage must be capable of touching someone or something - he or she can't be tied up, for example - but the physical touch is not strictly necessary. It's not how the rules are written, but it is more logical than having a move-by-wire street samurai being unable to physically avoid Sir Trips-a-Lot the Mage.
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Medicineman
post Aug 17 2016, 07:34 AM
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QUOTE (Slide885 @ Aug 16 2016, 10:00 PM) *
So when some one cast a touch attack spell, say Punch, the book says they have to make an unarmed touch attack against the opponent (+2 dice for touching). Is this unarmed attack considered part of complex action of casting the spell?

What if I have a cheeky player who says "I want to touch him by punching his face or tackling him?"

ImO (backed by at least 2 former Editions)
The touch as an Action is included in the Spell but You have to make a second Roll (a roll only, not a separate Action) to see wether you
can touch the opponent.
A touch only gives +2 Dice and you win on a Draw.
This touch makes no damage
Doing Double Damage from one single Action is not Possible in SR !
If your Cheesy Player wants to make a separate Atack which does separate Damage its a seperate complex Action.
But since the Spell is instant, it is no longer once the Second Action happens in the next Pass .

With a touchy Dance
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Blade
post Aug 17 2016, 10:09 AM
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I am not sure in SR5 but in SR4, no attack could ever deal multiple damages. For example if you punched someone with shock gloves you only counted the damage of the shock, not of the punch.
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Glyph
post Aug 18 2016, 01:12 AM
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The action of attacking was considered part of the complex action of spellcasting in SR4, although the caster did have to make a separate attack roll (although getting a bonus to hit, and succeeding on a tie).

SR5 has rules for touch-only attacks, but for touch spells, it does not explicitly state that the unarmed (touch) attack is made simultaneously with the spellcasting test. Personally, I think a lot of SR4 rules were assumed, but missed actually being included in SR5.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Aug 18 2016, 02:10 AM
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I could see this going either way, but it would, I think, take some house-ruling either way.


Method 1: Aura Conductivity
[ Spoiler ]


Method 2: Direct Contact
[ Spoiler ]
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ShadowDragon8685
post Aug 30 2016, 07:08 PM
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Nothing? Nobody? I was moderately proud of those two houserule possibilities. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)
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Glyph
post Aug 31 2016, 01:33 AM
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I prefer the SR4 rules, frankly. Personal bias is involved - I think touch spells should be more difficult to pull off, especially against a wired-up street sam or a kung-fu adept.
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KCKitsune
post Sep 4 2016, 08:02 PM
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QUOTE (Glyph @ Aug 30 2016, 09:33 PM) *
I prefer the SR4 rules, frankly. Personal bias is involved - I think touch spells should be more difficult to pull off, especially against a wired-up street sam or a kung-fu adept.


What if your mage is amped up with an Increase Reflexes spell or has something like a Synaptic Booster installed?
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Glyph
post Sep 4 2016, 09:34 PM
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QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Sep 4 2016, 01:02 PM) *
What if your mage is amped up with an Increase Reflexes spell or has something like a Synaptic Booster installed?

Then that mage has a better chance of going first. But in SR5, like SR4, going fast and hitting things use different Attributes. So it will still be hard to tag someone with a high (probably augmented) Reaction and a decent Intuition, especially if that mage has an average Agility and a low unarmed combat skill.
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