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lspahn72
post May 15 2004, 06:32 PM
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Please no flammin....Ijust a question...

It seems to me that over the last 3 years or so most of the web based suppliments have really died down. Now im sure most people have had families and careers that eat alot of that time away, but were are the younger crowd??? Or more importantly is there a much smaller number of people say under 20 that still play tabletop games??? Is this reflective of peoples REAL short attention span?

Love to hear some other thoughts????

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BishopMcQ
post May 15 2004, 10:00 PM
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I would personally label it the natural progression. Interest in gaming systems, in my opinion, is very much like the ebb and flow of the tide. Right now, SR may seem to be at a lower mark than before but it will change. I would say with the CCG revolution, there are fewer under 20 gamers than before, but in time they may serve as a gateway into other genres--including table-top gaming.

The only accurate way to test my theory would be to do an analysis of the number of web-based supplements for all the gaming systems on the market today in comparison to what was out there 5 or 10 years ago. I would say though that Dumpshock demostrates the thriving nature of tabletop gaming, at least for ShadowRun.

Differing opinions?
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Panzergeist
post May 15 2004, 11:24 PM
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I do miss Blackjack's page. He made some great character ideas. Though I prefer anvils to cows.
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post May 16 2004, 12:24 AM
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Almost everyone I know who had websites with original content has since grown out of gaming or SR and couldn't give rat's ass. I know of a couple of people who sold out and write for FanPro/WK and still have pages, but... meh.

I had one but couldn't maintain it for a year and someone else took care of it. I came back, didn't want to run it, and they got a co-admin. The original holder has since left (and is definitely incapacitated now because he's getting shot at in Iraq) and gave up interest. It didn't help that I took all of my Shadowrun files and deleted them (this is like the fourth or fifth time I did it, but this time I deleted stuff some people used, and stuff other people wrote for me but have since vanished), let's just say, because.

I am thinking about taking what the third party still has (I actually d/l'ed them) of mine and rewriting them because after reading a couple of SR supplements that came out in this period, I'm a bit concerned about the material--specifically when one of my co-conspirators has outright said that he felt like his stuff was ripped off (this is kind of like spud's FCG and the eerily similar one created in CC).
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Ancient History
post May 16 2004, 12:39 AM
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I'm not much for making original content myself. I just like arranging the given in different ways.

Crimsondude 2.0: I've done the deletion thing too. Many times. Still get the urge, sometimes.
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post May 16 2004, 06:20 AM
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Just out of curiosity, do you ever wish that you hadn't?
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Arethusa
post May 16 2004, 06:57 AM
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QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0)
I am thinking about taking what the third party still has (I actually d/l'ed them) of mine and rewriting them because after reading a couple of SR supplements that came out in this period, I'm a bit concerned about the material--specifically when one of my co-conspirators has outright said that he felt like his stuff was ripped off (this is kind of like spud's FCG and the eerily similar one created in CC).

I've actually been a little worried about this, to some degree, as a website's not really far off for my particular project. Is this really a serious concern?
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Joker9125
post May 16 2004, 07:21 AM
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This might be a little off topic but here goes.....

Im currently 18 and got into SR this year at college. My roomate was the one to first get into it, I remember him and our GM sitting there for like a week going over rules and character concepts and me thinking (If i hear one more thing about a cyberarm or stunbolt im gonna beat those D&D nerds to death) but eventually I decided to try it and wound up liking it. Im on my summer break and me and my GM recently moved to the same city(we had no clue the other was moving untill it actually happened, wierd huh?) and its just the two of us here. Does anyone know where we can find an existing group in the Memphis TN area?
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Adam
post May 16 2004, 07:28 AM
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QUOTE (Arethusa)
I've actually been a little worried about this, to some degree, as a website's not really far off for my particular project. Is this really a serious concern?

If your stuff is that good, then it's well possible that one of the freelancers will point it out to Rob and say "Some of this stuff would go well in Book X. You should talk to this guy."

There isn't enough money in this "sell out" world to make "stealing ideas" worth the potential hassle, IMO. :-)
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post May 16 2004, 10:15 AM
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I prefer "sell out" to "buy in," but that's another discussion.

The hassle isn't that big of a deal--particularly when it's not worth the trouble to do more than bitch about it. Seriously, what am I going to do? Sue someone for utilizing something I wrote that was credited to myself, but included the boilerplate disclaimer that it was unauthorized, and contained info and terms which were property of FASA? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Besides, of all of the pages and files and characters and stories (most of which never saw the light of day, and even those that did rarely reached beyond a very small audience of SR players who'd care) it happened three possible times and weren't exactly earth-shaking. They can even be explained away, and I sometimes think maybe it was inspired by something I wrote. It is more of a desire that if someone wanted to use something, they could have asked. "Gee, why'd you write X?"

Now if someone had expropriated elements of a short story I wrote about Nadja Daviar, then I'd be furious beyond reason because, frankly, the guns and teams and crap I could do in my sleep (which is how I plan to do anything SR-related this summer), but I put my soul into that story (and seeing this thread tore open the wound that came with erasing it). Hubert Selby Jr. once said, "When you write about somebody you hate, write about them with love . . . That's exactly what I did with Daviar when I started writing a story that originally placed here in a supporting role. I didn't like her for many reasons, but throughout the DHS there were aspects of her and other characters (I think the only two chacters that were one-dimensional were Oscuro and Damien Knight) that belied the seeming air of perfection in her (especially since metaplot info and shadowtalk info differ about her). There were fundamental aspects of her persona which wanted to write about. In the end, I wrote the one story in which I cared about a character. I loved the character and put a great deal of thought and consideration, and love, into the story as a result. I wanted to do so much with the character (which I never did, and for various, never will). That was when I began spending sleepless nights creating (mostly SR) fiction--cosmically, the circumstances had a great deal to do with the story ever being written--and (to tie theis whole post together) there are things which I would find particularly upsetting were I to ever see them in someone else's work. In my case, with what I mentioned above, it's not that big of a deal. I'm not missing sleep over it. I'm just going to do it better. Perhaps one day I can discuss an idea with Rob what I discussed with Mike several years ago.

I also have to consider, and I think this is also a reason why some of the really good stuff isn't online, the fact that the EuroSB/SoE project had to become private for there to ever be a SoE written by those very people. Plus there are authors who have their own websites where they can put their material (Kenson, Peters, Carey, Szeto, et al.) and even I generally presume their material to be superior to a comparable product because, at the least, they can probably write it better because they've been held to professional standards.

This is also why I may or may not put my full ass into any new site or material if I ever desire getting published. Writing the article (which I wouldn't have written had real-life not provided the inspiration) about how and why it should be easier to see a former specfor-blackops-bodyguard-turned-shadowrunner in light of the current booming marketplace of military and law enforcement-trained personnel serving in multiple roles (some of which aren't quite legal), I now have to wonder whether to type it up and put it on the web, or type it up and send it to Rob Boyle as the possible intro chapter on clandestine organizations and "company men."
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Synner
post May 16 2004, 12:05 PM
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QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0 @ May 16 2004, 10:15 AM)
I prefer "sell out" to "buy in," but that's another discussion.

I don't know what other people think but I actually like the idea of getting paid to write about something I love and enjoy. I won't even mention the thrill of helping to mold part of the Sixth World.

QUOTE
I also have to consider, and I think this is also a reason why some of the really good stuff isn't online, the fact that the EuroSB/SoE project had to become private for there to ever be a SoE written by those very people.

Just to set the record straight, in the very beginning the EuroSB project was an open amateur fanbook, it was only when we were faced with the possibility that there might be actual interest from FanPro in its publication did we have to consider modifying our approach.

This came from the understanding that no RPG company is going to publish material that's already been freely distributed on the web, and the fact that at the time FASA (yeah it was that long ago) had made a point of making this known, given the amount of SR related web material (back in 2000 SR was the RPG in circulation with the most dedicated fan pages).

We voluntarily pulled development onto a private group to prevent the problem cropping up and not because we didn't want people to have a look through and use the material for their own ends. But we also closed it for a number of other reasons, including our being much more selective regarding serious contributors (of the 47 people who participated in the early stages of the EuroSB only 18 stuck with it).

Thinking about it in hindsight I don't think it's that much of a problem. So much was changed and revised in later development, that looking back at the 3000 plus pages of material the EuroSBers produced and the 85Mbs of disc space where I keep them all I get is nostalgia.

Actually once my schedule clears up I am planning on putting some of that unused material to good use.

Regarding the possible "appropriation" of other people's material - that's a very difficult issue. I've been a regular on Deep Resonance/Dumpshock since its very first day. I know , sooner or later, its bound to happen that someone's going to point a finger and suggest something I wrote was their idea. It's inevitable and to a certain extent I can't honestly say that my writing and ideas aren't influenced b everything I read and see - books, movies, magazines articles, ONG reports and even Dumpshock posts. I don't think it can be any other way in today's society. Inspiration comes from all around us.

However, there is a thin line between inspiration and plagarism. Whenever I've found myself remotely interested in even this sort of thing I've asked the original poster permission for use of their material - and given him a credit of some sort (yes, Large Mike yours is coming soon). It's also been my experience that other freelancers do the same (even before I joined the ranks).

BTW - You should do what I do when pulling one of those deletion stunts. Save everything to a CD so that at least if I have second thoughts a year later there's some sort of backup.
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Kagetenshi
post May 16 2004, 04:10 PM
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I've never understood the urge for deletion. I'm an inveterate record-keeper. I save everything, more or less. I'm currently resisting the urge to make a backup of AH's entire site against the possibility of his deciding one day to delete the whole thing; the loss of information horrifies me on an emotional level.

Ah, the joys of being obsessive-compulsive.

~J
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Ancient History
post May 16 2004, 05:41 PM
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I'm not currently in delete-the-site mode. I am in update-revise-expand-the-site mode.

Crimsondude 2.0: Yeah, there have been times when I deleted things when I really wished I hadn't. Mainly because I had to go back and re-do it.
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Sahandrian
post May 16 2004, 07:43 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
I've never understood the urge for deletion. I'm an inveterate record-keeper. I save everything, more or less.

Same. I still have my character bios from back when I freeform RPed Dragonball ripoffs, and the HTML files for my original Geocities website, back when I first learned HTML.
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post May 16 2004, 08:54 PM
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Synner: Thanks for clarifying the SB thing.

Actually, because I never had my own computer in college when I wrote them (and because I was very paranoid about keeping anything on my home computer) it was all on Zip disks. And I know enough about computers to know that (although one disk is corrupt) if I really wanted to I could try and retrieve some of it, but not all of it. I just can't do it. As far as I'm concerned, the files are as gone as the noteboks full of musings and fiction that Ive left in trashbins in cities I will never return to. I am a strong believer in preservation through destruction. Because if I had then, I wouldn't think about them. But since I don't, I won't forget.
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Kagetenshi
post May 16 2004, 09:27 PM
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I don't forget things just because I have them recorded. I do realize that some people do, however.

You'll probably hear about me being carted off to the loony bin in a few years, babbling every memory I have stored away in the recesses of my brain.

~J
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CircuitBoyBlue
post May 16 2004, 10:44 PM
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Right, like a shadowrun player would ever go loony...

I totally dig the preservation through destruction thing. But as much as I actually understand it, I still feel compelled to make a joke mocking US foreign policy...
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A Clockwork Lime
post May 16 2004, 10:56 PM
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QUOTE
But since I don't, I won't forget.

Well, save for the stuff you have forgotten but don't remember because, well, you forgot.
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DV8
post May 20 2004, 08:50 AM
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Updating and maintaining my website is all about two things; Am I playing the game? Do I have the time? Yes, and yes equals a frequently updated website.
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Shadowrunner13
post May 20 2004, 06:06 PM
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I think I'm in the same boat as DV8... I just updated my page for the first time in four months. I don't play SR as often as I used to and with my baby girl at home, I don't have the time I once did. It seems more economical for me to stockpile goodies until I have a chunk of time to burn and do it all in one shot.

The fact that I have more hobbies than free hours in a week doesn't help matters either...

SR13
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DV8
post May 22 2004, 12:52 PM
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Well, as long as I keep getting an average 1000+ pageviews a day, I'll keep making sure my website is maintained on at least a semi-regular basis.
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