Basic soldier skills, Hoo-ah! Options

[Tanegar]

I've been going back and forth on whether to require my players to buy "typical soldiering skills," but then I decided just to give them a package for free. I don't want this to be unbalancing, but there are certain skills that all soldiers have.

Here's what I have so far:
Athletics Group 2
Outdoors Group 2
Automatics 2 + Assault Rifle specialization
Unarmed Combat 2
Etiquette 2 + Military specialization

Should I scale it back? Am I missing anything vital?

[Stingray]

I've been going back and forth on whether to require my players to buy "typical soldiering skills," but then I decided just to give them a package for free. I don't want this to be unbalancing, but there are certain skills that all soldiers have.

Here's what I have so far:
Athletics Group 2
Outdoors Group 2
Automatics 2 + Assault Rifle specialization
Unarmed Combat 2
Etiquette 2 + Military specialization

Should I scale it back? Am I missing anything vital?

..Throwing weapons (grenades)
Electronics
First Aid
Heavy Weapons
Launch Weapons
..maybe Parachuting..

[MortVent]

..Throwing weapons (grenades)
Electronics
First Aid
Heavy Weapons
Launch Weapons
..maybe Parachuting..

I would limit some of those to specialists.

Most would be (sr4 ish) closer to something like : Throwing weapons (non-aero) 1(3) simply because it's majorly focused in boot.

Most would be basic skills of 1 or 2 with specializations

Launch weapons would be limited really to maybe the AT4 equivalants.

First aid, electronics, etc... about 2 maybe 3 since it's mostly how to turn on the kits, apply pressure nothing really fancy


Now for specialists then you'd start to see the higher skill levels and proficiency (vs a basic trained soldier.) Infantry training would increase the skills higher for combat, but don't expect the guys in the cafeteria to be marksman... usually

[Mantis]

We're currently running a military focused campaign and what we did was just start with more karma for skills but with the requirement they pick up those basic soldiering skills. I'd add gunnery to the list as that covers firing any weapon mounted on a vehicle, whether it is rigged or not and whether the weapon is manual or not.
They should probably have the Military and Combat Tactics knowledge skills added to the list.

[hermit]

Let's go with the US Army IET for "basic soldier skills". Let's also leave aside physical requirements - unlike many players, most PC should automatially fulfill them.

US Army Basic Combat Training (BCT) consists of:
- intense drill and behavioral exercises and conditioning
- hand-to-hand combat drills
- navigation drills
- first aid drills
- athletics drills
- small unit tactics drills under various conditions, including nighttime, urban, and (where available) high-altitude operations
- firing exercises with a wide variety of small arms
- thrown weapon exercises (hand grenades)
- basic heavy weapons training, especially with anti-tank missile weapons
- survival drills
- basic leadership skills
- equipment maintainance drills throughout

Compare with the lifestyle module "Tour of Duty, UCAS":

Attributes
Body +1
Reaction +1
Strength +1

Qualities
SINner (5)

Basic Training (all branches)
Firearms skill group +1
First Aid +1,
Navigation +1
Unarmed Combat +1
Professional Knowledge: Military +4

Keep in mind that this is basic training; this is followed by Advanced Individual Training (AIT) that is branch-specific. The lifestyle module "Tour of Duty" lists additional skills for each branch that I'll not list here. I'd go with this, to be honest. It seems fairly accurate, as such things should go for a tabletop RPG.

[Tanegar]

..Throwing weapons (grenades)
Electronics
First Aid
Heavy Weapons
Launch Weapons
..maybe Parachuting..

Why the Electronics group? I can see Computer (Commlink), maybe even Data Search (Intel Archives). I'm pretty sure Hardware and Software would be specialist skills, though.

Also, what is this "Launch Weapons" skill? It's not in 20A core.

[Stingray]

Why the Electronics group? I can see Computer (Commlink), maybe even Data Search (Intel Archives). I'm pretty sure Hardware and Software would be specialist skills, though.

Also, what is this "Launch Weapons" skill? It's not in 20A core.

..Launch weapons is SR3ish Gunnery..

[hermit]

Electronics Group is a specialist training thing, I think.

[Tanegar]

OK, I'm pretty happy with the list.

Athletics (Group) 2
Outdoors (Group) 2
Firearms (Group) 2
Close Combat (Group) 2
Heavy Weapons 1 (Man-portable anti-armor)
Throwing Weapons 1 (Grenades)
Demolitions 1 (Plastic Explosives)
Armorer 1 (Specialization, player's choice)
First Aid 1 (Combat Wounds)
Computer 1 (Commlink)
Data Search 1 (Intel Archives)
Etiquette 1 (Military)
Leadership 1 (Morale or Tactics, player's choice)
Disguise 1 (Camouflage)
Infiltration 2
Professional Knowledge: Military 2
Professional Knowledge: Combat Tactics 2

[Sengir]

Infiltration 2

Hmm, I don't really see why this should be higher than for example Throwing Weapons and First Aid. IMO that 2 should go to Etiquette, because recruits pick up the jargon, knowledge of who's in charge, folklore, and attitudes long before they learn the more practical aspects (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Tanegar]

Hmm, I don't really see why this should be higher than for example Throwing Weapons and First Aid. IMO that 2 should go to Etiquette, because recruits pick up the jargon, knowledge of who's in charge, folklore, and attitudes long before they learn the more practical aspects (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I gave the extra skill rank because none of the specializations looked right to me. Also, remember that the specialization gives them an effective rating of 3 when dealing with other military personnel.

[Sengir]

I gave the extra skill rank because none of the specializations looked right to me. Also, remember that the specialization gives them an effective rating of 3 when dealing with other military personnel.

Fair enough

[ShadowDragon8685]

I've been going back and forth on whether to require my players to buy "typical soldiering skills," but then I decided just to give them a package for free. I don't want this to be unbalancing, but there are certain skills that all soldiers have.

Generally speaking, in a BYO character game (Shadowrun, Exalted, Eclipse Phase, etc,) if there's a campaign theme which requires every member of the group to have certain skills at certain minimums, I just give them out for free rather than requiring players to purchase them, and don't worry about "overpowering" the group.

That holds true whether or not it's a campaign-start thing or a campaign theme shift. I had a group of players in an Eclipse Phase game who had been riding a Scum swarm for a year (real-time,) who needed to go lay way the hell low for a while after starting a shooting war* in a major habitat in the Saturnine system, so they were to be sent Gatecrashing by Firewall. I had them given some Special High-Intensity Training (pun fully intended,) and they came out with a bevy of Gatecrashing-relevant skills at ~25-30 (along with the option to spend Rez; equivalent to Karma) to buy more (or, you know, other skills.)

*Yes, really, they started a full-blown shooting war between postAfrican warlord-refugee-oligarch families on the iZulu habitat as a means of covering their tracks; like, armed estate households firing rockets at one another, employees of one family gunning down the employees of the others, etc.

[sunnyside]

OK, I'm pretty happy with the list.

Athletics (Group) 2
Outdoors (Group) 2
Firearms (Group) 2
Close Combat (Group) 2
Heavy Weapons 1 (Man-portable anti-armor)
Throwing Weapons 1 (Grenades)
Demolitions 1 (Plastic Explosives)
Armorer 1 (Specialization, player's choice)
First Aid 1 (Combat Wounds)
Computer 1 (Commlink)
Data Search 1 (Intel Archives)
Etiquette 1 (Military)
Leadership 1 (Morale or Tactics, player's choice)
Disguise 1 (Camouflage)
Infiltration 2
Professional Knowledge: Military 2
Professional Knowledge: Combat Tactics 2

I presume you're doing a military campaign where this would really fit, but in general I'd say there isn't any requirement for Shadowrunners to have a solder like skillset. Part of what makes them interesting is coming from a lot of different backgrounds, and may have fallen into Running rather out of the blue and maybe not exactly of their own choice, but they've got some useful talents so there they are.

That said, some versions of Shadowrun had specialized military skills, and if I remember correctly some headware that worked with them. My players never went for it as it required everybody to take the same skill (Small unit tactics?) and then somebody had to be the "leader" so I'm pretty fuzzy on the particulars.

Still, if the players were game I think it would be more realistic and hopefully fun to have the team operate more like a coordinate squad/fireteam as opposed to the more typical wave of anarchy with a common goal style.