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> Why (imho) the new Matrix is stupid, Might be controversial but is something I would like to discus...
Sturmlied
post Jun 16 2017, 06:19 PM
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I am a very scientific minded person and it is my believe that a things in a game universe (like Shadowrun) should make sense within in the context of this universe.

The Sixth World is based on our universe to a not small degree and while technology developed a bit different the foundations are the same, the science behind it is the same and the thoughts people have when designing something are not that different.

This said I can’t wrap my head around the new Matrix. If find the whole idea as presented in Data Trails so stupid that no amount of suspension of disbelieve currently helps me overcome this.

So I wanted to get you opinion on this and thusly turned from a long time reader into a first time poster. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I also want to add that this started with Technomancers, while Otaku made sense to me I also think Technomancers should not work in the context of the Shadowrun Universe.

But now to my point about the matrix.

Let me start with a quote from Data Trails:

QUOTE
In sum, hosts hold humanity’s labor. It’s where we shape our evolution and destiny.


Hosts are what makes the matrix and according to this quote hosts are essential for our existence. This might be hyperbole but not to far from the truth, the matrix in the Sixth World is essential for civilization.

Another quote:

QUOTE
It would appear nobody understands the Foundation. Even the masters of the Matrix, the powers-that-be that supposedly control things, don’t seem to exactly know what’s going on.


THIS is the problem I have!

The matrix is technology, science, not magic and wishes. Actually it was established from the beginning that magic and technology don’t do well together.
So even with the matrix so vast, so huge that nobody can know the extent of it, the technology behind it, the science is something people should… NEED to know.

Why would the corporate world, after two devastating crashes make something and then depend on it for there very existence if they don’t even have the slightest idea about the scientific basis of it?
This goes against logic, self-preservation and basic human survival instincts in my opinion.

And how does this even happen? A system designed by (meta)humans even one so vast and based on such distributed computing (that is what the matrix is) does not suddenly change it’s scientific and technological principals to such a degree that nobody understands it.

QUOTE
What is interesting is that hosts aren’t computers. A host does not exist in a server. You can’t grab a computer and say “this is a host.” Hosts exist in the Matrix. So how do you “get” one? Again, the Foundation comes up. From what we understand, hosts are molded, grown, some designers say from the raw stuff of the Foundation.


This makes no sense as well. As is said the matrix is technology and has to run on something. In 4e my understanding was that this is basically distributed computing. The matrix runs on you commlink, nexus, toaster, t-shirt and all the other stuff.
With 5e they did not rebuild the matrix, they just rewrote the protocols and did something they don’t understand and is fundamentally idiotic?

Again…why would a corporation store their life blood, their most valuable information somewhere they not only can’t control, they also don’t even know where it is physically and scientifically.

Imho it would be more realistic if the Corporate Court looks at the matrix as it is described in Data Trails and goes “Nope… scrap that we start a new!” because nobody understands it, it is unnecessary complicated and at best dangerous as hell.
The whole idea behind the new matrix protocols was more control for them…. But they gave up all control of the technology, scientific basics… the things that actually matter for controlling the matrix? They gave up all physical control of their information?

Building a new matrix from scratch would be less risky by a factor of infinity!

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Posts in this topic
- Sturmlied   Why (imho) the new Matrix is stupid   Jun 16 2017, 06:19 PM
- - Savar   can't disagreed with you..... my sense of disb...   Jun 16 2017, 06:32 PM
- - JanessaVR   @Sturmlied: I can't disagree. This whole ...   Jun 16 2017, 08:13 PM
- - Sturmlied   QUOTE (Savar @ Jun 16 2017, 07:32 PM) ca...   Jun 16 2017, 08:30 PM
- - lokii   Pretty much the same for me too: QUOTE (lokii ...   Jun 16 2017, 10:16 PM
- - Mantis   Yet another agreeing with you OP. In fact your arg...   Jun 17 2017, 06:47 AM
|- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (Mantis @ Jun 17 2017, 02:47 AM) Ye...   Jun 17 2017, 07:12 AM
- - SpellBinder   IIRC, a great many of them were basic in SR4, and ...   Jun 17 2017, 10:51 AM
- - Sturmlied   QUOTE (lokii @ Jun 16 2017, 11:16 PM) To ...   Jun 17 2017, 11:42 AM
|- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (Sturmlied @ Jun 17 2017, 06:42 AM)...   Jun 17 2017, 01:32 PM
||- - Sturmlied   QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jun 17 2017, 01:32 PM)...   Jun 17 2017, 04:13 PM
|- - lokii   QUOTE (Sturmlied @ Jun 17 2017, 01:42 PM)...   Jun 17 2017, 07:18 PM
- - Savar   Heh, background in computers, now I do security sy...   Jun 17 2017, 08:55 PM
- - DeathStrobe   The thing is that the old Matrix technically never...   Jun 18 2017, 03:59 AM
|- - Sturmlied   QUOTE (DeathStrobe @ Jun 18 2017, 03:59 A...   Jun 18 2017, 10:29 AM
|- - DeathStrobe   QUOTE (Sturmlied @ Jun 18 2017, 03:29 AM)...   Jun 18 2017, 04:17 PM
|- - Sengir   QUOTE (Sturmlied @ Jun 18 2017, 12:29 PM)...   Jun 25 2017, 08:35 PM
|- - Sturmlied   QUOTE (Sengir @ Jun 25 2017, 08:35 PM) Bu...   Jun 25 2017, 09:13 PM
|- - Jaid   QUOTE (Sturmlied @ Jun 25 2017, 04:13 PM)...   Jun 26 2017, 06:03 AM
|- - lokii   QUOTE (Sturmlied @ Jun 25 2017, 11:13 PM)...   Jun 26 2017, 03:09 PM
|- - Sengir   QUOTE (Sturmlied @ Jun 25 2017, 11:13 PM)...   Jun 26 2017, 03:43 PM
- - lokii   QUOTE (Savar @ Jun 17 2017, 10:55 PM) If ...   Jun 18 2017, 01:23 PM
- - Medicineman   Maybe it's a ....Faith thing ? Just like lots ...   Jun 20 2017, 06:08 AM
- - Blade   There could be some Singularity effect here: an ev...   Jun 20 2017, 08:47 AM
|- - Sturmlied   QUOTE (Blade @ Jun 20 2017, 08:47 AM) The...   Jun 20 2017, 10:24 AM
|- - binarywraith   QUOTE (Sturmlied @ Jun 20 2017, 05:24 AM)...   Jun 27 2017, 07:34 AM
|- - Mantis   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jun 26 2017, 11:34 ...   Jun 27 2017, 04:51 PM
||- - JanessaVR   QUOTE (Mantis @ Jun 27 2017, 08:51 AM) Th...   Jun 27 2017, 05:10 PM
||- - SpellBinder   QUOTE (Mantis @ Jun 27 2017, 10:51 AM) QU...   Jun 28 2017, 06:24 AM
|- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jun 27 2017, 02:34 ...   Jun 28 2017, 05:31 AM
|- - binarywraith   QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jun 28 2017, 12:31 AM)...   Jun 28 2017, 07:36 AM
|- - Mantis   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jun 28 2017, 12:36 ...   Jun 28 2017, 01:39 PM
|- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jun 28 2017, 03:36 ...   Jun 28 2017, 03:26 PM
- - KCKitsune   My thought on this is this: If the Corps allowed ...   Jun 26 2017, 07:30 AM
- - Sturmlied   QUOTE (lokii @ Jun 26 2017, 03:09 PM) Wel...   Jun 26 2017, 06:28 PM
|- - lokii   QUOTE (Sturmlied @ Jun 26 2017, 08:28 PM)...   Jun 26 2017, 08:20 PM
|- - Sengir   QUOTE (Sturmlied @ Jun 26 2017, 08:28 PM)...   Jun 28 2017, 09:02 PM
|- - binarywraith   QUOTE (Sengir @ Jun 28 2017, 04:02 PM) Sl...   Jun 29 2017, 12:44 AM
|- - Sengir   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jun 29 2017, 02:44 ...   Jul 5 2017, 09:31 PM
- - SpellBinder   Tried bopping around in the old SR3 core rule book...   Jun 28 2017, 04:29 PM
- - lokii   Again I liked the matrix mystery when it was confi...   Jun 28 2017, 08:44 PM
- - lokii   I think you take too little account of automation ...   Jun 29 2017, 07:20 PM
- - binarywraith   If anything, the automation should make it easier ...   Jun 30 2017, 09:53 AM
- - sk8bcn   Sometimes, I Wonder CGL have a testing group and i...   Jun 30 2017, 11:55 AM
|- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (sk8bcn @ Jun 30 2017, 07:55 AM) So...   Jun 30 2017, 05:17 PM
|- - Jaid   QUOTE (sk8bcn @ Jun 30 2017, 06:55 AM) So...   Jul 6 2017, 08:29 PM
|- - Mantis   QUOTE (Jaid @ Jul 6 2017, 01:29 PM) have ...   Jul 8 2017, 01:38 AM
|- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (Mantis @ Jul 7 2017, 08:38 PM) See...   Jul 8 2017, 04:03 AM
||- - JanessaVR   QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 7 2017, 08:03 PM) ...   Jul 8 2017, 04:14 AM
||- - binarywraith   QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 7 2017, 11:03 PM) ...   Jul 8 2017, 07:19 AM
||- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 8 2017, 03:19 A...   Jul 8 2017, 08:57 AM
|- - Jaid   QUOTE (Mantis @ Jul 7 2017, 08:38 PM) See...   Jul 9 2017, 09:49 PM
|- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (DeathStrobe @ Jul 9 2017, 01:33 AM...   Jul 10 2017, 03:33 AM
|- - Jaid   QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 9 2017, 11:33 PM) ...   Jul 12 2017, 05:24 AM
|- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (Jaid @ Jul 12 2017, 12:24 AM) (oh,...   Jul 12 2017, 06:25 AM
|- - Jaid   QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 12 2017, 01:25 AM)...   Jul 12 2017, 05:34 PM
||- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Jaid @ Jul 12 2017, 10:34 AM) no. ...   Jul 13 2017, 01:49 PM
||- - Jaid   QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 13 2017, 09...   Jul 14 2017, 06:29 PM
|- - JanessaVR   QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 11 2017, 10:25 PM)...   Jul 12 2017, 06:04 PM
- - Trillinon   The SR5 Matrix, at the level presented in the core...   Jul 5 2017, 10:54 PM
|- - JanessaVR   QUOTE (Trillinon @ Jul 5 2017, 02:54 PM) ...   Jul 5 2017, 11:16 PM
- - binarywraith   Yeah, I just excise all that shit and treat Data T...   Jul 6 2017, 08:28 AM
- - binarywraith   Known defect. Baneblade rules were done by Forgewo...   Jul 8 2017, 09:40 AM
|- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 8 2017, 05:40 A...   Jul 8 2017, 11:34 AM
|- - binarywraith   QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 8 2017, 05:34 AM) ...   Jul 12 2017, 12:17 PM
- - Mantis   They should learn to kill their babies. This was a...   Jul 8 2017, 06:24 PM
|- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (Mantis @ Jul 8 2017, 02:24 PM) The...   Jul 9 2017, 06:02 AM
- - DeathStrobe   You all realize that the Matrix has never been a r...   Jul 9 2017, 06:33 AM
- - binarywraith   There's a line between 'this should be per...   Jul 9 2017, 05:50 PM
|- - JanessaVR   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 9 2017, 10:50 A...   Jul 9 2017, 07:04 PM
|- - ThreeGee   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 9 2017, 06:50 P...   Jul 10 2017, 09:09 AM
|- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (ThreeGee @ Jul 10 2017, 05:09 AM) ...   Jul 11 2017, 01:44 PM
|- - binarywraith   QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 11 2017, 08:44 AM)...   Jul 12 2017, 01:23 AM
|- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 11 2017, 08:23 ...   Jul 12 2017, 02:45 AM
- - DeathStrobe   The Matrix being mystical doesn't mean magical...   Jul 10 2017, 05:10 AM
|- - binarywraith   QUOTE (DeathStrobe @ Jul 10 2017, 12:10 A...   Jul 10 2017, 05:55 AM
|- - DeathStrobe   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 9 2017, 10:55 P...   Jul 10 2017, 07:35 AM
- - binarywraith   Cybermancy is specifically using blood magic, with...   Jul 11 2017, 01:44 PM
- - lokii   The Blood Mage Gestalt is an another example. And...   Jul 11 2017, 10:05 PM
- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   Quickening is prone to a LOT of potential abuse, y...   Jul 17 2017, 05:24 PM
- - Sturmlied   QUOTE (DeathStrobe @ Jul 9 2017, 06:33 AM...   Jul 18 2017, 11:53 AM
|- - Sengir   QUOTE (Sturmlied @ Jul 18 2017, 01:53 PM)...   Jul 20 2017, 10:18 PM
- - DeathStrobe   Literally, the Crash of 2029 is the Singularity mo...   Jul 19 2017, 01:51 AM
|- - JanessaVR   QUOTE (DeathStrobe @ Jul 18 2017, 05:51 P...   Jul 19 2017, 02:19 AM
||- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (JanessaVR @ Jul 18 2017, 10:19 PM)...   Jul 19 2017, 12:32 PM
|- - lokii   QUOTE (DeathStrobe @ Jul 19 2017, 03:51 A...   Jul 19 2017, 09:52 PM
- - DeathStrobe   Did you forget about Psychotrope? Mirage is an AI....   Jul 20 2017, 02:50 AM
|- - binarywraith   QUOTE (DeathStrobe @ Jul 19 2017, 09:50 P...   Jul 20 2017, 03:47 AM
|- - lokii   QUOTE (DeathStrobe @ Jul 20 2017, 04:50 A...   Jul 20 2017, 12:32 PM
- - DeathStrobe   While Mirage didn't achieve self-awareness unt...   Jul 21 2017, 02:09 AM
|- - lokii   QUOTE (DeathStrobe @ Jul 21 2017, 04:09 A...   Jul 21 2017, 09:29 AM
|- - Sengir   QUOTE (lokii @ Jul 21 2017, 11:29 AM) Als...   Jul 23 2017, 09:36 PM
- - Jack_Spade   The greatest problem of the new matrix concept is ...   Jul 21 2017, 09:44 AM
- - binarywraith   You could have stopped at 'Devices do not requ...   Jul 22 2017, 01:31 AM
- - KCKitsune   QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 21 2017, 08:31 ...   Jul 22 2017, 11:57 PM


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