Some House Rules, Help me balance Options

[Kesendeja]

These have been collected from various sources, and in nearly all cases so long ago the original inspirations are next to impossible for me to find. So if it started out yours let me know and I'll give credit where its due.

Learning Extra Meta Magic
If the gamemaster approves, Awakened characters can learn metamagic techniques through other methods, in addition to the one they acquire at each grade of initiation. It costs 20 Karma to learn a metamagic technique outside of initiation. The maximum number of metamagic techniques that may be learned in this way is equal to the character’s initiation grade.


New Qualities

TechnoMagic Harmony (25 points)
Your familiarity and understanding with magic and technology has allowed you to mitigate some of the challenges with combining the two. You must be awakened to take this quality.
Reduce the Object Resistance Dice Pool Modifier by one level.
The level can be reduced no lower than "Natural Objects"
Reduce the dice pool penalty for applying Health Spells to Low Essence characters by half.


TechnoMagic Attunment (20 Points)
You can ignore up to one point of essence loss for purposes of determining your magic. This does not stack with Prototype Transhuman.


Shielding Metamagical Qualities:

Mass Shielding:
This Quality costs xx Karma. The Initiate can protect an area with her Counterspelling equal to her Magic Rating + Grade in meters or a number of individuals within LOS equal to twice her Magic Rating + her Grade. This is a popular Quality amongst military and mercenary magicians.

State of the Art Shielding:
This Quality costs xx Karma. It allows the Initiate to apply her Grade in dice as a defense against any type of magical effect from any source.

[binarywraith]

What will never make sense to me is the obsession with combining magic and tech I'm a setting where the two are inherently opposed.

[Tanegar]

Technomagic Attunement is OP. For 1 point of Essence you can get: top-grade cybereyes and ears, and cram them full of enhancements; one full cyberlimb, and cram it full of stuff; a rating 10 damage compensator, effectively nullifying ten points of Drain for the purpose of dice pool penalties; a metric fuckton of sub-1-Essence stuff, gaining a wide variety of advantages; etc., etc., etc. A well-built magician is already incredibly powerful; the Magic penalty for augmentation is one of the very few balancing factors. Think very hard before you weaken that penalty.

[Glyph]

Remember, though, that Prototype Transhuman lets you do that for 10 Karma (albeit with more limits and an accompanying disadvantage). I think TechnoMagic Harmony and TechnoMagic Attunement are balanced, but mainly for "standard" games, since their high opportunity cost - using up all of your allowable PQ points - is the main thing keeping them from being too OP. That's the equivalent cost of getting mentor spirit and focused concentration: 5, or getting prototype transhuman, spirit whisperer, and witness my hate.

[Medicineman]

What will never make sense to me is the obsession with combining magic and tech I'm a setting where the two are inherently opposed.

but they aren't or else you wouldn't be able to influence Tech with magic which you can !
Tech and magic may not be best Buddies (hence Objet Resistance) but they aren't ....archenemies.
I think your Oppinion is strongly influenced by the first 2, 3 Editions of Shadowrun where Tech and Magic are more...opposites.
since SR4 and 4A tech has been very malleable (is that the right word ? ) by magic !

I myself play a Gnome Technomage in our SR4A Hong Kong Round . He has an allied Spirit and is working at a magic Iron Man Armor.
He is very much fun to play and neither I nor my GM have troubles with interacting Technology and Magic

with an amalgamated Dance
Medicineman

[Cabral]

Remember, though, that Prototype Transhuman lets you do that for 10 Karma (albeit with more limits and an accompanying disadvantage). I think TechnoMagic Harmony and TechnoMagic Attunement are balanced, but mainly for "standard" games, since their high opportunity cost - using up all of your allowable PQ points - is the main thing keeping them from being too OP. That's the equivalent cost of getting mentor spirit and focused concentration: 5, or getting prototype transhuman, spirit whisperer, and witness my hate.

I was going to mention Prototype Transhuman. You would need to add the limitation that they cannot stack.

[binarywraith]

but they aren't or else you wouldn't be able to influence Tech with magic which you can !
Tech and magic may not be best Buddies (hence Objet Resistance) but they aren't ....archenemies.
I think your Oppinion is strongly influenced by the first 2, 3 Editions of Shadowrun where Tech and Magic are more...opposites.
since SR4 and 4A tech has been very malleable (is that the right word ? ) by magic !

I myself play a Gnome Technomage in our SR4A Hong Kong Round . He has an allied Spirit and is working at a magic Iron Man Armor.
He is very much fun to play and neither I nor my GM have troubles with interacting Technology and Magic

with an amalgamated Dance
Medicineman

My opinion is influnced by the first three editions of the game because moving away from that was a serious mistake on the part of the writers. There are a lot of other science fiction-themed games out there that have a lot to recommend them over SR mechanically, so the setting is what keeps me interested in it. Moving away from the basic premise of that setting is definitely not ideal, and it isn't as if the writers have done anything terribly interesting with that to make the change worthwhile, other than the handwavium SR5 Matrix. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Kesendeja]

Went over it with my group.

Technomantic Shaper (10 points)
Your familiarity and understanding with magic and technology has allowed you to mitigate some of the challenges with combining the two. You must be to take this quality.
Reduce the Object Resistance Dice Pool Modifier by one level.
The level can be reduced no lower than "Natural Objects"

Technomatic Harmony (3 Karma)
Reduce the dice pool penalty for applying Health Spells to Low Essence characters by two, to a minimum of one.

Technomantic Attunment (15 Points)
You can ignore up to one point of essence loss from cyberware for purposes of determining your magic or resonance.


Shielding Metamagical Qualities:

Mass Shielding (7 Karma)
The Initiate can protect an area with her Counterspelling equal to her Magic Rating + Grade in meters or a number of individuals within LOS equal to her Magic Rating + her Grade. This is a popular Quality amongst military and mercenary magicians.

State of the Art Shielding (20 Karma)
This quality allows the mage to add their shielding dice to any roll to resist critter powers or abilities that rely on magic.

[Titan]

Shielding Metamagical Qualities:

Mass Shielding (7 Karma)
This Quality costs 10 Karma. The Initiate can protect an area with her Counterspelling equal to her Magic Rating + Grade in meters or a number of individuals within LOS equal to her Magic Rating + her Grade. This is a popular Quality amongst military and mercenary magicians.

State of the Art Shielding (20 Karma)
This quality allows the mage to add their shielding dice to any roll to resist critter powers or abilities that rely on magic.

I think you need a second draft. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Otherwise, I don't like Technomantic Attunment... But I can't see anything inherently wrong with it. My gut just tells me it can be abused. That could just be the red beans and rice I had for dinner though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[KCKitsune]

Technomantic Attunment (15 Points)
You can ignore up to one point of essence loss from cyberware for purposes of determining your magic or resonance.

Is this SR4A or 5? If it's 4A, then this wouldn't be bad, but, like Titan said, this would be abused to all hell and back.

If this is SR5, then why spend 15 karma for this, when you can spend 5 less and take Prototype Transhumanist who can take 1 point of Bioware for NO Essence cost? I mean if you take Prototype Transhumanist and just Bioware you would still have 6 Essence.

[Kiirnodel]

Well, benefit 1 is that it doesn't come with a free negative quality.

I'm not exactly sure what the Mass Shielding quality is supposed to be doing. What is the advantage of "counterspelling an area?" I see that it increases the number of people you can protect (by your Initiate Grade).

[Cabral]

The benefit of technomagic attunement is that it doesn't include a negative quality and is not restricted to bioware, and it is not restricted to ware you can purchase at character creation. 15 is way too cheap.

[Titan]

I figured out why I don't like Technomantic Attunement.

Last I read through the Magic System in Shadowrun (back in 3e, so I am outdated) there was a big stink made about not being able to see astrally through technology unless the mage spent essence on the tech. In essence (pun intended), buying the ability with their Magic.

Technomantic Attunement bypasses that.

Now, that may not amount to much. I'm not trying to say that it shouldn't exist or anything... Just explaining what my aversion to it was / is.

[Iduno]

Perhaps instead of removing a point, make Technomantic Attunement reduce the loss by half, up to a one-point reduction? It accomplishes the same thing, but requires them to have lost some amount of essence. Especially as your wording doesn't seem to benefit samurais any (prototype transhuman sounds like it does), and Shadowrun doesn't need any more benefits for magical characters over tech.

[Shinobi Killfist]

My opinion is influnced by the first three editions of the game because moving away from that was a serious mistake on the part of the writers. There are a lot of other science fiction-themed games out there that have a lot to recommend them over SR mechanically, so the setting is what keeps me interested in it. Moving away from the basic premise of that setting is definitely not ideal, and it isn't as if the writers have done anything terribly interesting with that to make the change worthwhile, other than the handwavium SR5 Matrix. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

I see it the same way. If anything I would have increased the penalties between editions. Mechanically there isn't much of a reason to play a mundane for most characters you can take bioware etc and just be better with magic further enhancing your build. I would have kept the penalties for matrix activity and increased essence cost for awakened individuals. Every edition has its strengths and flaws but for me editons 1-3 were far better in the setting.

[Glyph]

I don't have a problem with magic being used in conjunction with technology. It shouldn't be easy, and they shouldn't mix naturally, but people should logically notice that the combination of magic and technology is better than either one by itself.

My biggest problem with augmentations is that adepts have the best of both worlds - they can use augmentations to boost themselves in areas that are more expensive to get with power points, while using power points for powers that are cheaper, or that have no technological equivalent. Plus, the magic and technology are different enough that they can stack. You can have improved ability and a reflex recorder. You can have tailored pheromones and cool resolve. SR5 has the same problem as SR4; augmented adepts are the optimal choice.

Qualities like Prototype Transhuman or the proposed Technomantic Attunement quality give even more of an advantage to awakened characters, but comparatively, they are not that big of a deal. It just means that an awakened character buys a quality, rather than needing to initiate/raise Magic later. I still think Technomantic Attunement should cost 25 points, though.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Yes, with adepts there is a mechanical issue. In general though my complaint is thematic. I would prefer if the combination of magic and tech went from worse to neutral compared to on their own in most cases. But I still hate the UFT on magic and I miss grounding(which kind of came back in forbidden arcana and pretty close to how I thought it should have been changed from the getgo) so my views are probably in the minority.