8/17/2017 12:32 AM PST: Happy Ghost Dance Day Options

[lokii]

So was the Ghost Dance actually a series of rituals, one dance for tornados here and then with a bit more booty shaking for precision lightning strikes there? Or did the dance just accumulate power which SAIM shamans could tap into if they needed extra firepower? And how did the SAIM/NAN have the power to blow up volcanoes and control the weather well before the GGD started?

I would say both. You have the ghost dance as a form of ritual magic. The Great Ghost Dance was one, likely long-lasting, instance of the ritual in 2017, which produced the eruption cluster. Redondo Peak was probably a smaller ghost dance.

Shadows of North America, p. 86:

When Daniel Coleman overthrew the re-education camp systems, many of the Pueblo joined with him in rebellion against the United States government. Leading the Pueblo contingent was a group called the Kachina Society.

[...] Apparently they kept alive some of the Hopi’s more mystical secrets, as the society provided shamans who utilized the newly-returned powers of magic to assist Coleman in the Great Ghost Dance and other war rituals across the Southwest.

The Great Ghost Dance was performed by ghost dancers accross the country. Though there was a center, the site of the Great Ghost Dance somewhere in the desert, visited in Harlequin's Back. And the dancers were not just shamans I think:

Native American Nations Vol. I, p. 74:

The Great Ghost Dance began in 2017, as men and women of the tribes all across the continent performed the ritual Howling Coyote had taught them.

Target: UCAS, p. 37:

I saw a lot of people--good and brave men and women--die on both sides of the war. I danced with my wife until she fell into a medicine man's arms and died

It was probably an ongoing process gathering strength with ghost dancers dropping in and out over the course of a few months. The Great Ghost Dance also allowed for the control over the weather, that the NAN had in 2017:

Harlequin's Back, p. 9:

a powerful magic ritual known as the Great Ghost Dance, which allowed them to control the weather and much of the environment in western North America.

[bannockburn]

Well, it's in the name, really, IMO.

They used sacrificial blood magic to literally invoke the fury of the earth and sky. Or rather, bargain with powerful, likely free (fire or earth) spirits living in the volcanoes, and storm spirits controlling the weather. I always interpreted this as the main way the magical power was used, but of course, it's also possible that some was diverted for other magical purposes.

[Sengir]

The Great Ghost Dance also allowed for the control over the weather, that the NAN had in 2017:

My problem is that IMO "control all weather over North America" sounds far too broad to be covered by a single ritual. Hence I was tossing around possible alternatives which still fit (most of) the established canon:
1.) The GGD actually was a number of rituals. One for the Redondo Peak eruption, another one for the tornadoes that took out the Air Cav after DHC's broadcast, one for flooding some supply base in the middle of nowhere...
2.) The GGD was a single ritual, but that ritual only served as a power source which shamans then tapped into for blowing up mountains or blowing away helicopters

And in either case, I agree it seems unlikely that the dancers would have all been shamans. Being drained/sacrificed in a ritual does not require magical skill.

[bannockburn]

1.) The GGD actually was a number of rituals. One for the Redondo Peak eruption, another one for the tornadoes that took out the Air Cav after DHC's broadcast, one for flooding some supply base in the middle of nowhere...
2.) The GGD was a single ritual, but that ritual only served as a power source which shamans then tapped into for blowing up mountains or blowing away helicopters

I don't think it's a matter of or. I think it is either. A single ritual with a bunch of "lower-tier" rituals, all feeding the same purpose. See the description of the Ghost Dance in that third Sam Verner book, where people all over the world take part in it in some way, but there's also a central ritual coordinating it all.

And in either case, I agree it seems unlikely that the dancers would have all been shamans. Being drained/sacrificed in a ritual does not require magical skill.

No, that's not required. But from descriptions in fluff as well as actual rules, magical blood is a LOT more potent.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

No, that's not required. But from descriptions in fluff as well as actual rules, magical blood is a LOT more potent.

I think that belief (even if unawakened) played just as much a part in the Ritual... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Sengir]

I think that belief (even if unawakened) played just as much a part in the Ritual... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I don't think using a believer ever granted a bonus to blood magic...on the other hand, a nonbeliever who is kicking and biting at his captors might make the ritual a bit more difficult (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Lindt]

So...I give you some passages to consider from Harlequins Back (pardon the text insert, the OCR is not great, and I'm not retyping it all at 1am):

HB:10 The chasm represents the gulf In the metaplanes between our world and the world of the creatures. The outcropping Is the spike of magic created by the Great Ghost Dance, and Ihe bridge Is Ihe journey that the creatures are undertakIng to reach Ihe Slxlh World.


HB:19 Magic leaves an imprint wherever you work It: he says. Usually Ifs fairly Insignificant and produces no lasting change. But when you work magic on the scale of what was performed its a different tale entirely. Lifes energies empower magic. and when life Is expended In that effort. the result Can be Staggering. And It leaves a permanent Impression on the area.

HB 21: The Dance was effectively ·blood magic·-people died willingly to fuel the magic. and the echoes from that sacrifice can still be felt.

Just my 2¥

[lokii]

Just my 2¥

What are your two nuyen, though? Not sure what you're getting at with the quotes.

[lokii]

Well, the war is officially over: https://www.reddit.com/r/Shadowrun/comments..._denver_signed/

[SpellBinder]

Would consider the events of the mission pack "Ripping Reality" would be a major factor. I mean, seriously, Ghostwalker tells the other nations to get the frag out of the Zone, that it's His territory and not theirs.

Of course, there's still an alternative outcome...

[Sengir]

Well, the war is officially over: https://www.reddit.com/r/Shadowrun/comments..._denver_signed/

The sum for all provinces or states results in 7,200,000 people leaving NAN lands formerly belonging to Canada (or 33% of the population) and 21,400,000 people for the US (or 8% of the population).

I think it's fair to assume that a lot of migration/displacement occurred without regard to the US/Canadian border. The (IMO) more better statistic would therefore be 28,8 million displaced people in total, out of a total population of 282 million. Which sounds like a lot, but ~10% displaced population actually isn't that much when you compare it to Europe after WWII.

But one question, what do you mean by "Aztlan became part of the NAN according to some sources"? Are there sources which contradict that, or is it just that there are few sources for Aztlan's NAN membership?

[lokii]

But one question, what do you mean by "Aztlan became part of the NAN according to some sources"? Are there sources which contradict that, or is it just that there are few sources for Aztlan's NAN membership?

Originally Mexico was on the other side in the negotiations. That's in Second Edition and the NAN books for example. After that NAN membership for Aztlan was introduced and now that I had another look the fact is repeated in many sources. So I can actually only point to the Sixth World Almanac as a newer source, that does not mention it (though they still have Aztlan signing the Treaty).