Need a little help rgd. GridGuide, Could really use a reply before tonight Sep. 13th, 19.30 CET Options

[Kyrel]

Guys,

I'm running a 4a ed. campaign at the moment, and a question came up, which I'm not certain of the answer to, and so far I haven't managed to find a clear answer in the books, though I have probably overlooked something somewhere.

In short, does GridGuide register where motorbikes go, if they drive in an area with GridGuide? We're talking about 3 racing bikes and a "dirt bike".

The situation is that the group, while riding 4 bikes, have pulled up at an appartment block where they have then broken in, forced their way into an appartment and shot the inhabitant, before leaving again. They've been careful enough not to leave any obvious evidence that can lead to them, but they have not taken GridGuide into considderation. So the question is whether the cops can register that their bikes have driven to the place, been there for about 15 min., and then driven off again. They have been spotted by other inhabitants in the building, but they can only tell the cops that 5 people in motorcycle gear, wearing helmets, apparently broke into an appartment and shot someone. The question is whether the cops can link the 4 bikes to the characters, and pull them in for questioning based on that.

We're playing again tonight (Sep. 13th), so I'd appreciate any quick replies. I'd also appreciate if anyone can point me to where in the books I can find the answer to this question.


/Kyrel

[Jack_Spade]

Theoretically yes, that's why runners normally invest into spoof chips and morphing number plates.
The biggest hurdle for the police will be that grid guide is run by a private company that won't easily part with their data. Also Grid Guide is voluntary. You can at all times take off from it (and you often have to when you get into less developed parts) which makes it hard to get a complete track from anyone (i.e. not impossible, but you have to sift through a lot of data)
Finally, you don't necessarily get the SIN of who used Grid Guide. It is a lot more likely that you get basic info like, make, model and energy usage (if you are using the induction system). Of course if they have foolishly registered the bikes to their real SINs they might be in trouble.

Also, don't forget that the police are a private company too. Unless it's a high profile case they are likely not interested in expending a lot of resources to track the criminals down. It's much more convenient to round up the usual suspects, pressure them until one of them cracks, have them arrested and call it a day (and a solved crime)

[Titan]

The one thing Jack isn't accounting for is the possibility / likelihood of local law enforcement (KE, Lone Star, whoever) negotiating a side contract with GridGuide for access to the data.

As it can provide a tactical advantage in real time chases / apprehensions, I would expect them to try. If they succeed or not, is the GMs (your) call.

As for what GridGuide tracks: Yes. They track location of vehicles, direction traveled, speed, etc. Everything the modern day "black box" devices track for car insurance, and then some more on top. It is presented to the public as a necessity for real time traffic reports and predictions for best travel routes... But it is all there. And since VINs (Vehicle Identification Numbers) are required to be broadcast at all times, GridGuide also keeps tabs on specific vehicles - although that may not be their main function (it might only be used to catalog data locally, but it can be used to track).

[JanessaVR]

If you're doing anything illegal, turn off GridGuide (more like physically disconnect it) before you go anywhere near the location you're going to do it in, and then don't reconnect it until you're miles away from that location. A nice, disposable vehicle is another good idea. Boost a car, immediately use it for your nefarious deeds, and then cast both Cleaning and Sterilize spells on it before you abandon it shortly thereafter.

[KCKitsune]

If you're doing anything illegal, turn off GridGuide (more like physically disconnect it) before you go anywhere near the location you're going to do it in, and then don't reconnect it until you're miles away from that location. A nice, disposable vehicle is another good idea. Boost a car, immediately use it for your nefarious deeds, and then cast both Cleaning and Sterilize spells on it before you abandon it shortly thereafter.

Then use thermite on the car to make damn certain that EVERY piece of evidence is gone. Kinda hard to get anything when the care is a molten pile of slag.

[JanessaVR]

Then use thermite on the car to make damn certain that EVERY piece of evidence is gone. Kinda hard to get anything when the care is a molten pile of slag.

Not sure how much thermite you'd need to carry around to completely slag a whole car, so I prefer the spells approach myself. Maybe just also slap some thermite on the car's computer/databanks before you go? If you've sterilized the vehicle, you really just need to make sure there's no data trail.

[Jack_Spade]

The one thing Jack isn't accounting for is the possibility / likelihood of local law enforcement (KE, Lone Star, whoever) negotiating a side contract with GridGuide for access to the data.

As it can provide a tactical advantage in real time chases / apprehensions, I would expect them to try. If they succeed or not, is the GMs (your) call.

As for what GridGuide tracks: Yes. They track location of vehicles, direction traveled, speed, etc. Everything the modern day "black box" devices track for car insurance, and then some more on top. It is presented to the public as a necessity for real time traffic reports and predictions for best travel routes... But it is all there. And since VINs (Vehicle Identification Numbers) are required to be broadcast at all times, GridGuide also keeps tabs on specific vehicles - although that may not be their main function (it might only be used to catalog data locally, but it can be used to track).

Everything is possible if the GM hates you.
My premise is that shadow runs are possible despite total surveillance and Big Brother state.
The solution that (at least in SR 4) was given is that the whole system is so balcanized and inefficient that getting anything done is neither easy nor fast if you want to use legal solutions.

SR is a dystopian cyberpunk world where calling the police usually is more hassle than it's worth, where so much crime happens that the police is hopelessly overworked and paying a local gang or shadow runners to get a bit of private justice is a much more enticing prospect.

[Kyrel]

Thank you for the comments gentlemen. I'll take your general consensus as "theoretically speaking GridGuide can have tracked the bikes, but having the data actually reach the relevant law enforcement agency is another matter".

I'll let the players get away with this, unless they do something stupid, but I'll probably let something happen to let them know that they really should remember to account for this stuff.

/Kyrel

[Kren Cooper]

As a suggestion? Have some low-level techno weenie deck surfer at GridGuide "Figure it Out" - maybe he lives just across the way, and it was kinda personal to him or something... but either way, he puts two and two together, gets 4 and manages to track down your team. Then he makes a call, threatening that he has a timed data packet waiting to go to the Star to pass on all the evidence, unless he gets X thousand Nuyen in certified cred by the end of the day.

Whether you use this as a way to bring down their cash balance, to make them hungry for the next run or if they then have to do a bit of wet-work against the decker to keep their secret hidden would depend on your campaign of course. But whatever you do, your players will have a good example of how GridGuide can tag them, and learn from their mistakes (hopefully).

I'm a big fan of consequences in game - but they don't always have to be deadly or permanent. Maybe the desk weenie makes his own mistakes and the players can out-think him or put social pressure on him - but it should open up a whole bunch of questions and make the players realise they're not working in isolation.

[Kyrel]

As a suggestion? Have some low-level techno weenie deck surfer at GridGuide "Figure it Out" - maybe he lives just across the way, and it was kinda personal to him or something... but either way, he puts two and two together, gets 4 and manages to track down your team. Then he makes a call, threatening that he has a timed data packet waiting to go to the Star to pass on all the evidence, unless he gets X thousand Nuyen in certified cred by the end of the day.

Whether you use this as a way to bring down their cash balance, to make them hungry for the next run or if they then have to do a bit of wet-work against the decker to keep their secret hidden would depend on your campaign of course. But whatever you do, your players will have a good example of how GridGuide can tag them, and learn from their mistakes (hopefully).

I'm a big fan of consequences in game - but they don't always have to be deadly or permanent. Maybe the desk weenie makes his own mistakes and the players can out-think him or put social pressure on him - but it should open up a whole bunch of questions and make the players realise they're not working in isolation.

I like your suggestion. However, I might let that one wait for a little while, seeing as I actually gave the group this run in order to provide them a bit of cash, as right now not all of them will actually be able to make rent this month.

[Kren Cooper]

Can always spin it around then - have the weenie try to blackmail them, but be woefully unprepared, and end up having to make them fake IDs / supply GridGuide inforfmation they can fence for a little cash. Teaches them that they can be tracked by GG, and also that if you try to blackmail someone tougher and more ruthless than you, it can all go horribly wrong...

[Stingray]

..Arsenal have Vehicle Mod. Grid Link Overide, thtat would help a bit.. also Runner's Companiion have quality Erased ( being seen in security camera would qualify as harmful..)

[Kyrel]

Can always spin it around then - have the weenie try to blackmail them, but be woefully unprepared, and end up having to make them fake IDs / supply GridGuide inforfmation they can fence for a little cash. Teaches them that they can be tracked by GG, and also that if you try to blackmail someone tougher and more ruthless than you, it can all go horribly wrong...

Funny idea too. I'll give that some considderation too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Kyrel]

..Arsenal have Vehicle Mod. Grid Link Overide, thtat would help a bit.. also Runner's Companiion have quality Erased ( being seen in security camera would qualify as harmful..)

The players are aware of it. They just haven't thought to include it in their starting characters, and they haven't had the time or money to get it applied to their vehicles at this point. But I suspect that they might give serious considderation to that matter in the future. One of them already have has van in a shop for this particular purpose (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[farothel]

Not sure how much thermite you'd need to carry around to completely slag a whole car, so I prefer the spells approach myself. Maybe just also slap some thermite on the car's computer/databanks before you go? If you've sterilized the vehicle, you really just need to make sure there's no data trail.

No need to take out the thermite. It costs money and either you need contacts to get it or leave a data trail. Just drive the car into the Barrens, remove all ID and use the spells as said before and then leave it there. It will be cleaned up quickly enough, or used to joyride by so many people that police will not be able to get anything useful out of it.

[JanessaVR]

No need to take out the thermite. It costs money and either you need contacts to get it or leave a data trail. Just drive the car into the Barrens, remove all ID and use the spells as said before and then leave it there. It will be cleaned up quickly enough, or used to joyride by so many people that police will not be able to get anything useful out of it.

Goes back to my "just boost a car" suggestion, though leaving it in the Barrens (with the keys in the ignition) is definitely a good last step.