What exactly can fix, fix, Tomb raiding and the modern mage. Options

[Kesendeja]

During a run, the mage wanted to use Fix to restore a burned document. They also wanted to know if it could repair the damage that time and the elements have done to an item, such as erosion, fading or mildew, and rot.

All the spell says is that all of the object must be present, not what condition it has to be in.

Thoughts?

[Glyph]

All of the pieces being present would rule out burned documents where you don't have all of the ashes, as well as damage from erosion. Mildew, rot, and fire damage are a GM call, but I would probably rule that a repairing spell cannot reverse chemical changes such as rot, rust, fire or digestion.

[Xasten]

Shadowrun magic is largely drive by Platonic ideals. The "idea" of something which you see in its astral representation.

When you change the nature of something you change its true pattern/astral image. I'd argue, as Glyph said, that a chemical change, the passing of time, or a deliberate act to change the nature of the object itself cannot be "fixed." This is because the object is no longer what it was, but instead it now is something else.

It's no longer a document; its new identity is a pile of ashes. But, if someone merely ripped it then it still identifies astrally/platonically as a piece of paper with writing on it it's just a little broken or out of tune with itself. That can be fixed because the spell restores the physical object as close as possible to its ideal/astral/platonic self.

This is largely how I think healing magic should work as well. I once had a PC who was an elf but her ears had been clipped when she was born to anti-meta human parents, so when she received magical healing for the first time many years later, the ears were not something she had in her astral pattern despite being an elf genetically, physically, and mostly astrally. The physical and mental trauma had screwed with her self perception which caused aural/true self problems. So when a spell went to restore her "true self" it did and the ears were not healed or changed in any way.

[Jareth Valar]

Fire, rot, rust I can definitely see. How about an archanoarchaeologist coming across a sealed tomb with papyrus scrolls brittle with age? All parts are still there, just fragile.

Just tossing other possibilities out there... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[KCKitsune]

Fire, rot, rust I can definitely see. How about an archanoarchaeologist coming across a sealed tomb with papyrus scrolls brittle with age? All parts are still there, just fragile.

Just tossing other possibilities out there... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I would think that would work. Hell, you can use Fix after you unrolled the scrolls and have them reassemble themselves.

[Sengir]

This is largely how I think healing magic should work as well. I once had a PC who was an elf but her ears had been clipped when she was born to anti-meta human parents, so when she received magical healing for the first time many years later, the ears were not something she had in her astral pattern despite being an elf genetically, physically, and mostly astrally. The physical and mental trauma had screwed with her self perception which caused aural/true self problems. So when a spell went to restore her "true self" it did and the ears were not healed or changed in any way.

But wouldn't that also work in the different direction, with a hardcore elf poser suddenly sprouting real ears?

[Kiirnodel]

Actually, the answer there is much simpler. The Heal spell can't heal any damage over an hour old. It doesn't fix scars, repair old damage, or anything like that. It has nothing to do with the subject's self-concept.

[Xasten]

But wouldn't that also work in the different direction, with a hardcore elf poser suddenly sprouting real ears?

It's a problem, but I think the answer can be argued as no under typical circumstances.

In Earthdawn and Shadowrun (somewhat) we've seen and heard about rituals to "rename" something. The bloodwood/blood elves in earthdawn are an example of that. With powerful enough magic you could, in theory, alter someone's astral self in such a manner. In a distant future where the scientific method has "solved" magic perhaps turning a troll into a elf could be a relatively simple matter. In theory.

The heal spell simply, in my view, restores your body to what it should be according to your pattern. It's much easier to damage something than it is to rebuild it. A mage's damaged psyche can place a mental block on the reception of a healing spell preventing it from fully restoring the physical form. Because of that trauma, the spell either was blocked subconsciously or it simply did not respond because of the mental block and resulting damage to the pattern. Additionally, in my campaign example with the elf, she was an unaware physad in strong religious denial of magic whose mental block gave her a sort of subconscious masking. The mages in the group who carefully examined her aura did see the ears, but they can be missed upon first glance.

Back to your point more specifically, I do think it is possible it could go the other way, but given the difficulty of renaming, unless you're the Emperor of Mankind from WH40K, I don't think any amount of mental trauma or posing could will you into an elf simply given the level of mojo necessary to accomplish such a feat.

Actually, the answer there is much simpler. The Heal spell can't heal any damage over an hour old. It doesn't fix scars, repair old damage, or anything like that. It has nothing to do with the subject's self-concept.

First, my game is in SR2 which has the treat spell which has the one hour limit not the heal spell. The heal spell, in second edition generally implies (but does not out right state IIRC no books with me at the moment) that you only get one chance to heal each set of wounds. Once magical healing is applied to a given set, those wound do not get a second bite at the apple.

I disagree that the heal spell (and similar spells) very much have to do with the target's pattern (which can be impacted by trauma and self-image). Otherwise, how does the spell "know" where the thigh bone connects to the hip bone? There has to be some sort of template or plan to follow. Shadowrun is quite clear that magic is not intelligent and must be directed or guided somehow. Also, Earthdawn and Shadowrun focus so much on patterns, true names, and such so intently that I can't see any other reasonable answer as to how the spells would otherwise work.

Also, as I explained with Fix, scars and old damage can potentially not be repaired because the subject has existed with them long enough to simply have them become a part of them. You're no longer who you were, but you are now that person + the scars. How long that transition takes, however, I think is a philosophical question that starts to get a bit weird depending on the person's views, experiences, trauma, aural damage, etc.

[Wacky]

I wouldn't say no, because players hate that after spending karma on something, but maybe just up the threshold really high. Something that you feel is fair, but incredibly difficult.

The only other stipulation I'd put in is that they get only one try on it--much like a Heal spell. After they fix it, it's a new thing. Fixing it again only puts it back to the way it was after the first attempt.

Sign--

Wacky

[Kren Cooper]

We always take it that magic is very dumb, littoral and "Ronseal" - it does exactly what it says on the tin. So fix would fix a broken plate that has been dropped and smashed, but would not do anything about a plate that was covered in dirt.
But, there's nothing to say there wouldn't be very specific niche magical spells for dealing with this stuff.
Clean: a spell that renews an item to having an appearance unmarked and unsullied as when it was first created (just be sure you don't cast that on your masterpiece which was painted over an earlier picture!)
Revitalise: a spell that replenishes the water content in dried materials and restores flexibility in brittle materials

And for more powerful use, ritual level casting of spells like "reconstruct" - takes the astral impression of the item from the creators imprint on any remaining parts, and reconstructs the original parts lost or stolen with a replacement. So if someone rips out the location of the hidden treasure from the map and sets it on fire, it's ok - you can recreate the information from the rest of the map and the imprint created by the original artist.
TN and drain code on these might be high, based on the fine control / manipulation needed of course, and GM fiat on how essential it is to the story. But they'd make an interesting loadout for a Lara Croft mage...