Personalized Handgrips, Or whatchamacallyit for them guns Options

[FXcalibur]

The statistical process of getting a personalized grip is more or less covered in the CC, but from a roleplaying aspect, what happens?

Would the gunsmith make a mold of your hand, or ask you to grasp some kind of clay to get a shape? Would he carve out the grip and replace the old one, or would he tack on something to the grip itself?

If my players want a personalized grip, I'd prefer to have some storytelling involved, instead of just 'ok, roll your pistols B/R against so-and-so. You succeed at/fail the process."

[Smiley]

So... you want them to roleplay getting a mold of their hand done?

[FXcalibur]

I'm unfamiliar with the process is all. To answer your question, well, yes. :) I'd prefer it not to be abstracted to dice rolls alone, especially since (some) players take pride in their guns.

If it's a gunsmith you don't trust, and he asks if he can make a mold of your hand, might you be suspicious? Of course, this is an extreme example, but you never know what might happen in a game.

[Arethusa]

Honestly, I wouldn't get too deep in real life with this one. In real life, it can be as simple as buying a fitted polymer sleeve for a gun's pistol grip and positioning it for your shooting style or it can be as complicated as taking precise measurements of your hand as well as a cast mold and having the gunsmith work from there. In SR, the benefits don't even make a hell of a lot of sense.

I admire your desire to roleplay outside of simple dice rolls, but this isn't a good place in terms of mechanics to do it. Save that sort of thing for playing a game of cards, etc.

[Connor]

So what kind of effects do happen in real life with a 'personalized grip' or what have you? Is it just a comfort issue or are there other benefits to your shooting? Is it just too subjective to even comment on?

[JaronK]

I'm no gun expert, but here's my guess. I'd say the grip would be made of some gel-type substance, easily formable, that would absorb some of the shock from recoil, and would be fitted to go very nicely in your hand. The process would probably involve removing the outer portion of the stock grip and then using some form of glue or other method to attack a molded gel grip. It's probably a pretty simple process.

JaronK

[Siege]

As opposed to the "factory issue" grip, one is personalized to fit your hand and shooting grip.

I don't know if I buy the SR mechanic, but if you really wanna role-play the thing, require a specific instrument that is expensive and only a few gunsmiths in town have -- hence a waiting period. Barring creative character interaction.

Maybe the gun itself has to be re-worked to enable the "custom grips" to be fully functional which requires a higher level of expertise and money.

Otherwise -- just let them roll, especially if it's a simple process and they have the tools to do it.

-Siege

[Arethusa]

Come on, no need to make this unnecessarily complicated. The custom grip's a simple concept and shouldn't require inordinate amounts of cash and time. That's just going to feel contrived.

As for what they do in real life, I'll admit that this is not really something I have any real practical experience with. Presumably, they're more comfortable, but the genefits are also likely to not mean much outside of potential comfort until you start shooting in precision competitions like the IPSC.

[Crusher Bob]

For pistols:

Most 'custom grips' are a pretty simple affair. You order them out of a catalog, you take the old grips off of the gun and put the new grips on...

The new grips are generally changed around by things like hand size, shooting style, and better (more expensive) grip material. They might also wear out a bit faster than stock grips.

In general though, there not much you can do to customize the grip of a pistol, since the magazine feeds through it.

For rifles,

You can get the whole stock replaced with cheekrests and wahtnot. Most competition/sniper rilfes come out of the box with adjustable cheekrests, buttplates, etc that will let you adjust the rifle to yourself pretty quickly.

[Xirces]

[Kanada Ten]

[sidartha]

Knowing what I know of pistols,(quite a bit) I'll say that two molds need to be taken. One with the hand at rest and one formed around the grip. However this is where the SR mechanic differs from real life. Such a custom grip will improve your shooting as the gun points more naturally for you, it really won't do much for the recoil.
What will reduce the felt recoil is a grip that has room to deform and then reform when it trys to move your hand. Either Ruger or Smith&Wesson had a revolver some years back whose grip was a rubber core surrounded by several rubber disks who filled out the proper shape of the grip thus while rather strange to hold was a dream to shoot(revolvers tend to kick harder than automatics)
I'll try to find the gun and post a link later.
Otherwise, do as Kanada Ten suggests

[Arethusa]

In terms of game mechnics, makes more sense for custom grips to allow one additional aiming action than any amount of recoil compensation.

[GreatChicken]

Personalized grips are a must when you're affected by surge flaws or perhaps non-human cyberarm structures. If you're really, really that far 'mutated', chances are, your hand structure WILL be different (most guns are made for humanoid hands), and dwarf and troll mods might not be enough to make up for it (Picking up weapons with claws feels completely different from doing it with hands).

[FXcalibur]

Great piece of writing, Kanada Ten :)

I can see that it's probably a bit too much into detail for a group game, but for writing fiction, or a 1-on-1 with a patient player, marvelous. I'd love to see your take on the high tech store. Pretty please with a rangefinder on top? :D

A free aim action does make sense (and the metahuman/cyber mod too) but there's the issue of game balance again. I think it would have to make custom grips the complex and expensive process someone mentioned above to balance it out. Maybe make it easier to quick-draw?

[Arethusa]

There's no reason it would make it easier to quickdraw. In any case, I never said free aim action; I said you get to benefit from one additional action of aiming. Therefore, with a skill of 2, you could normall aim for one simple action to get -1. With a custom grip, you are allowed to take aim up to a bonus of -2. With a skill of 4, you would normally be allowed to take aim up to -2; toss in a custom grip and you're allowed to take aim up to -3.

[FXcalibur]

Misunderstood. Again. My bad.

The reason why I thought of quick drawing was that you ultimately feel more flexible with the gun's grip, and it's it made of gel, easier to withstand pressure. The few times I've gripped a gun I found myself constantly re-gripping (is that even a word?) because the grip felt odd or wrong somehow, which delayed shooting. It's probably a personal quirk more than anything else, I suppose.

[Arethusa]

Honestly, the more cumbersome shape of a customized grip may make it easier to hold and fire, but it's going to make it more difficult to holster and draw quickly. If anything, I see it as being an impediment to quickdrawing. That said, though, this is territory I'm not very qualified to talk about due to complete lack of practical experience, so I could be very off.

[Smiley]

[FXcalibur]

In Lieu of someone with real experience, it's fun to theorize on the subject at hand, even if it's just for the sake of casual discussion and to see how accurate your guess was. :)

It's not like I'm going to ignore someone with real life experience. All the better, in fact. And then there are helpful people here who provide insight on how it can be used in an in-game fashion, which was what I was going for the when I first started the topic.

Right now it's just that, after-thoughts, discussion and theory.

[Xirces]

I'll second that - the best thing to do is talk about it, admit from the off that you don't know squat. Be corrected by someone who does know, point out flaws in their explanation (which makes you seem like an ass), criticise them, but ultimately be swayed by their superior knowledge and leave having learnt something. Chances are by having to patiently explain something obvious to an anonymous prat on the Internet that the other person will learn something as well. :D

Oh, and nice story Kanada. Next part please? :)

[Snow_Fox]

[Nikoli]

Well, Mr. Sam could always wear a pair of surgical gloves while holding the mold.

Hell a customized grips could be little more than a wad of cleverly placed rubber bands around the grip.
Personally I like the concept of -1 TN over all for you, +1 for anyone else just for using the grip

[Siege]

Bursts, not burts. :grinbig:

-Siege

[Kanada Ten]